[mrennie]

To start, I have the worst luck. Not sure why, but if weird stuff happens, it happens to me.

I am sharing this for two reasons:

-incredibly disappointed at Comp's response to resolve the finding of a manufacturing defect on a brand new part.

-very concerned about an apparent consumer right's issue where Comp's warranty will not be honored due to purchasing from Amazon, which is not declared anywhere on Comp's website or in the warranty statement that came with the parts, nor is it declared on Amazon's website.

So, several weeks ago I was looking for a set of quality US made rocker arms that could reliably handle ~500 LB spring pressure for a drag car I plan to build. If $$ was no object, I would have bought Crower stainless rockers and be done with it, but I have a budget and was looking for quality parts that are middle of the road pricewise. I had narrowed it down to Harland Sharps HD6001 (heavy duty) aluminum rockers or the Comp 19060 Ultra Gold aluminum rockers. Considering I will be making less than twenty 1/8 mile passes a year, this seemed like a reasonable plan and either should last me a long time.

Started Googling pricing and found that Amazon carried the Comp rockers, with free shipping through Prime. I thought, great, instead of buying questionable offshore, I will get US made and support Comp and not have any shipping hassles. Amazon's return policy is good so if there are issues, I am covered and won't be out of pocket. In addition, the Comp rockers carry a lifetime warranty. I'm all set!!

So, I place my order and when the rockers arrive I inspect them all and find that one is defective out of the box. The pushrod cup has been pressed into the aluminum rocker body at an angle, which has deformed the cup and changed how it would mate with the pushrod. Effectively, it is unusable. This is the "ALWAYS CHECK YOUR PARTS" reminder, even getting brand-new parts from a US manufacturer guarantees nothing.

My first thought was, I will just return these to Amazon and get another set. Problem: Amazon had 2 sets in stock when I ordered mine several weeks ago but now they are sold out. So, unless I just return them for a refund and buy elsewhere, my only other option is to reach out to Comp (the manufacturer) and ask them to replace the defective part. As the original purchaser (I have my receipt!!) this should be easy to discuss with Comp and get resolved!

I go to Comp's website and send a message and picture of the defect through their online form, asking how we can get this rocker replaced. To my surprise, I get a reply back the next day that any Comp products sold through Amazon have no warranty, and they recommend that I return them for a refund and buy from Comp directly. WTF??? This makes no sense. The service agent also explains that warranty is only valid for items purchased by an "authorized dealer". Problem for me as a consumer, is that this is not specified in the warranty details on the website, nor is it stated on the warranty card in the box. How am I supposed to know whether Amazon, or the small shop down the street sells new parts covered by warranty? There is no disclaimer on Comp's website showing who is not "authorized".

I am not a lawyer, but this just does not make sense, so I wrote back to the service agent with my concerns and asked them to confirm their position, and they did...Comp parts that come from Amazon have no warranty.

Which brings me to my greatest disappointment. How did this rocker get into a box and out the door in the first place? Is there no one checking what they ship out? And, should the place of purchase have any bearing on whether or not the manufacturer stands behind their product? Is Amazon selling "blem" products that are not being advertised as such?

Mistakes happen, people are human, so even if I "suck it up" and accept that I have to get this rocker replaced, at no point in the conversation with Comp was there a recognition that they had a defective product and should come good for it. The RIGHT thing to do, would have been to say "sorry", we apologize for shipping you a part that you cannot use, we will replace it due to our error, rather than approach it as "well, you bought it from someone we don't really like to sell through, so even though we messed up, and even though this is not a warranty issue at all since the parts were never in service, we will refrain from resolving your problem and instead make you just buy a whole new set (which may or may not also have problems)".

Amazon sells all kinds of Comp items from lifter, rockers, cams, timing sets, etc. These are being sold directly by Amazon, not someone using Amazon as a sales front. It is not like Amazon is breaking into Comp's factory at night and stealing parts to sell online the next day. What am I missing? I did go check the Amazon warranty details, which state that products sold by Amazon are covered by the manufactures stated warranty. Seems like a great case for a product lawyer to take on. Vendor is saying you are covered by warranty, manufacturer states warranty covers all defects, but forgot to mention that warranty is completely void if purchased through "unauthorized" channels.

I noted that the emails from Comp contain a privacy disclaimer stating they own the information in the email and that unauthorized distribution is prohibited, which presumably is a tactic to scare folks from sharing the bad news.

Here is a "reasonably hand drawn facsimile" of the conversation:

ME: I purchased a set of your rocker arms through Amazon, part # 19060-16. I just received them and while inspecting them, found one with the pushrod cup installed incorrectly. The cup has been pressed in at an angle, as is now deformed and not seated properly. I cannot exchange this set for a new one as Amazon no longer has them in stock. Looking to get this one replaced. Thanks

Comp: Thank you for submitting your concern to our team! Unfortunately Amazon is not an Authorized Edelbrock/Comp Cams distributor. There is no warranty when ordered with Amazon. We recommend returning the rocker arms to Amazon for a refund and order the rockers directly from us as we have them in stock.

ME: I appreciate the quick reply. Before I return these rockers to Amazon, I want to clarify and confirm Comp's position that Amazon is not an authorized dealer and that your products sold through Amazon are void of any warranty.

Amazon currently sells numerous Comp products, such as camshafts, lifters, timing sets, and rocker arms. Most are advertised as sold by Amazon directly (as opposed to another business using Amazon as a marketplace).

While I am not a supply chain expert, I must assume that Amazon is procuring your products directly or through another distributor. Unless these are counterfeit parts, they were manufactured by Comp and I am having a hard time understanding why who is the retailer of your parts would affect warranty eligibility. The parts I purchased were in a new box that was clearly never opened. While my current inquiry was related to defective manufacturing, I would have been very upset to be denied warranty down the road on an item advertised as having lifetime warranty due to purchase from Amazon rather than an "authorized" distributor.

I note that a review of the warranty conditions on your website (shown below) as well as the documentation that came with the rockers does not specify that warranty is void unless purchased from an approved distributor. In fact, in the list of specific exclusions, there is no reference to place of purchase. The fact that Comp does not mention these restrictions in the warranty statement while also does not advertise who is "authorized" to sell your products seems arbitrary. Many other businesses small and large sell your practices and I am not sure how as a consumer, I would be able to determine who to purchase from to ensure the advertised warranty is honored. To be clear, this is very disappointing.

I want to stress that I am not trying to be difficult or argue with you, but I need to ensure I am getting accurate information so I can make a decision on how to proceed and where I can safely purchase Comp products in the future. To be transparent, based on Comp's ultimate position I intend to communicate with Amazon about this warranty issue as I have purchased several other Comp products though them, and I am sure you can appreciate that it is not acceptable for Amazon to be selling products whose warranty is void without making that clear to me as a consumer.

I appreciate your time and look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks

Michael


Warranty terms from Comp website as of today:

COMP CAMS / LUNATI
LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY AND LIMITED WARRANTY
Edelbrock Group warrants COMP Cams and Lunati products are free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of One Year from the date of purchase. On certain products, there is a Limited Lifetime Warranty. These Limited Warranties cover only the original purchaser. Only certain select products that are clearly marked are covered by the Limited Lifetime Warranty; all other products carry our One-Year Limited Warranty.
Edelbrock Group’s obligation under both warranties is limited to the repair or replacement of its product. To make a warranty claim, the part must be returned directly to Edelbrock Group following the instructions set forth in the Edelbrock Group Return and Exchange Policy with a valid Return Merchant Authorization Number (RMA), freight prepaid. Items covered under warranty will be returned to you freight collect. To obtain an RMA, call 1-800-999-0853 to report your issue. When you call the technician, he will also attempt to troubleshoot your issue. It is the responsibility of the installer to ensure that all of the components are correct before installation. We assume no liability for any errors made in tolerances, component selection, or installation.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY ON THE FOLLOWING:
• Any parts used in racing applications or subject to excessive wear
• Any product used in marine applications unless it is specifically listed as a marine product
• Any product that has been physically altered, modified, improperly installed, or not maintained
• Any product used in an improper application, abused, or not used in conjunction with the proper parts
There are no implied warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. There are no warranties that extend beyond the description of the face hereof. Edelbrock Group will not be responsible for incidental and consequential damage, property damage or personal injury damage. Where required by law, implied warranties or merchantability and fitness are limited to 90 days from the date of purchase. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other legal rights which vary from state to state.

Comp:Michael,

Yes, if the products are purchased from Amazon the warranty is null and void. All valid points, we will take your concerns up the ladder and see if we can make some changes to the warranty policy online.

[Formulajones]

Just send'em back for a refund and buy from summit or jegs or speedway. They are all certified suppliers and will take care of any warranty issue in the future. Problem solved

[Elarson]

Amazon has been accused of selling counterfeit parts (of all sorts) and I suspect this is why Comp won't honor the warranty. If Amazon isn't an authorized dealer, then who knows where they came from?

Your best bet is to return them to Amazon and start over.

Eric

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Amazon has been accused of selling counterfeit parts (of all sorts) and I suspect this is why Comp won't honor the warranty. If Amazon isn't an authorized dealer, then who knows where they came from?

I can certainly appreciate that perspective. Having bought lots of Comp parts in the past, I am convinced they are not counterfeit. I got the stickers, all the usual instructions, and the packaging matches other Comp parts I have bought from Summit. But you are right, how would Comp know that.

How Amazon is getting so many Comp parts to sell would be interesting to know.

In any event, I wanted other folks to know about this issue and the risks buying from Amazon. I have already started the refund process and won't be out anything in this case, but man would I have been upset a few years down the road if I had an issue and warranty was not honoured.

What a crappy spot for the consumer to be in.

[Formulajones]

Yeah I agree. I've bought quite a few things from Amazon, just not big ticket items and certainly not items I'm worried about counterfeit parts.

When it comes to counterfeit stuff engine parts are a big concern. A lot of that going on. I only buy straight from manufacture, summit, jegs etc.... I pay more but I know what I have.

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Yeah I agree. I've bought quite a few things from Amazon, just not big ticket items and certainly not items I'm worried about counterfeit parts.

When it comes to counterfeit stuff engine parts are a big concern. A lot of that going on. I only buy straight from manufacture, summit, jegs etc.... I pay more but I know what I have.

I'm failing to see the value in counterfeiting a lot of these things. Seems like a lot of work for low profit.

Example, other night I was searching parts on Google and came across ARP rocker studs for $75 on Amazon. Package looks right, nothing seems off.

First thought is, why is ARP selling bolts on Amazon? I assume they get from ARP to a distributor somewhere and if they move a lot, maybe Amazon decides to carry them on their website to make some sales. Second thought, I recall reading somewhere that some distributors pay Amazon for warehouse space for product they stock around the country. Maybe part of that lets Amazon sell it too through their own channel.

Then my mind goes to, who would see enough profit margin to even attempt to copy ARP rocker studs and their packaging, down to the funky labels in the corner that show package weight and employee who packed it.

[Jay S]

That is pretty pathetic. Harlan Sharp would offer some type of at least limited warrantee on 30 year old rockers you bought from a swap meet.

Return them, chalk it up under a cheap lesson was learned.

[Formulajones]

I guess the value in counterfeiting is selling the stuff at reduced prices and pulling in the budget minded crowd that isn't aware. Most see a name on the box and don't look any further than that. It happens all the time. It's why I'm careful when buying things I have to rely on.

There are a lot of examples all over the internet.

[rwfisher]

Not sure why you would not just return as defective to Amazon for your refund and be done with it? I agree, comp should help make it right but that argument is a non issue if you have your money back in hand…. You can then decide if buying from a qualified supplier at their retail price is worth the assurance you get the product support with it. On your specific product this is what Amazon posts if manufacturer warranty information is required.. Note that it states “Where you purchased from” is the condition that probably legally covers Comps. Actions unfortunately….

“To obtain a copy of the manufacturer warranty for a product found on Amazon.com, you can do the following:

Contact the manufacturer directly
Visit their website for more information
Contact our Customer Service team at the following email address: [email protected].
If you email our Customer Service team, include the full name of the product; the model or style, if applicable; and the product detail page URL (website address).

Manufacturer warranties may not apply in all cases, depending on factors like the use of the product, where the product was purchased, or who you purchased the product from. Review the warranty carefully. If you have any questions, contact the manufacturer.”

[VCho455]

Counterfeiting is rampant through out Amazon and other interweb sellers. It is big business in China. Many times a overseas manufacturer who was contracted to manufacturer parts for a reputable company for export will make the parts they were contracted to, then at the end of the run they will start to manufacture additional parts with cheaper materials using the original dies and packaging. They will also take any parts that failed quality control and box them up. These are then sold to a 3rd party who then exports them. Thus improving their profitability of the entire order. The US has very control over this practice and the Chinese aren't interested in shutting the practice down.

Several years back I received a Bosch O2 sensor that failed out of the box and though the back and forth with the return and information from a different forum I learned that approximately 30% of Bosch parts available through the internet are counterfeits. This number was contained in an announcement from Bosch attempting to warn potential customers to only buy from authorized distributors.

[mrennie]

Perhaps some of my point was missed. I am returning these, and will be made whole, so no issue there.

I received a set of rockers with 15 good ones and 1 not usable. Why would I bother engaging with the manufacturer? Because returning them for a refund and ordering 16 more from somewhere else is not a guarantee I will get 16 good ones the next time. My thinking (obviously incorrectly) was that Comp would want to resolve a defect and send out a new one. If I just sent the 16 back, it is highly likely that they would get sold again as new with no issues and some other poor sucker would get them. Why not deal with the single rocker and be done.

To ensure there is no confusion, there is no counterfeit issue here. Comp did not decline to resolve the problem with the defective part because they felt it was counterfeit... in fact, had I sent the defective part back and they determined it was counterfeit, I would have felt bad for wasting their time and would have gone after Amazon for selling me fake parts.

Their sole reason for not resolving the issue is because they came from Amazon. I have an issue with this, as it not spelled out on their website, in the box of parts, or anywhere where the "average" consumer could find it. And to RWfishers point above, Amazon's site for this exact product does not say there is no warranty, is actually says manufacturer's warranty is available by contacting customer service. Why would a reasonable person conclude there is an issue here, and again, one of the points of starting this thread is consumer awareness so someone else does not find out after the return period has passed, and they have a problem that they are now screwed.

Attached are more pics for any doubters that these are real parts.

[tom s]

The company my son and I have had too many issues with Amazon and we stopped selling to them.The volume is good but they nickel and dime you to death on returns.Sorry for your issue.Tom

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by VCho455

Counterfeiting is rampant through out Amazon and other interweb sellers. It is big business in China. Many times a overseas manufacturer who was contracted to manufacturer parts for a reputable company for export will make the parts they were contracted to, then at the end of the run they will start to manufacture additional parts with cheaper materials using the original dies and packaging. They will also take any parts that failed quality control and box them up. These are then sold to a 3rd party who then exports them. Thus improving their profitability of the entire order. The US has very control over this practice and the Chinese aren't interested in shutting the practice down.

I have seen this myself before with machine tooling. This is a valid concern in many cases.

In this particular case, if Comp was making these rockers overseas then I would be much more open to this possibility. However, these rockers are a US product which is why I bought them, to avoid being caught by this.

Others on this site have purchased this model of part, I am sure if there is any hint of something being off we will hear about it.

[Skip Fix]

"Counterfeiting is rampant through out Amazon and other interweb sellers. It is big business in China. Many times a overseas manufacturer who was contracted to manufacturer parts for a reputable company for export will make the parts they were contracted to, then at the end of the run they will start to manufacture additional parts with cheaper materials using the original dies and packaging. "
My college roommate does auto AC stuff. Started in college putting in ARA aftermarket units, bought the Dallas ARA. A few years ago had some proprietary compressor parts made for Ford in China. Exclusive pattern for Ford. China factory knew. Next year at trade show saw the same parts for sale! Autozone idler and tensioners are usually his stuff now.

[grivera]

Thanks for posting this information! Curious what the difference in price was?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Amazon has been accused of selling counterfeit parts (of all sorts) and I suspect this is why Comp won't honor the warranty. If Amazon isn't an authorized dealer, then who knows where they came from?

Your best bet is to return them to Amazon and start over.

Eric

Exactly!

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by grivera

Thanks for posting this information! Curious what the difference in price was?

At the time of purchase, there was no difference in price between Summit and Amazon.

[ponchjoe]

Amazon is a counter fitter and I and not sure why something isn’t being done about it. Bezos has so much money that he makes stuff go away I’ll bet. Bottom line, do not buy from them or Temu or Alibaba, or any other Chinese linked business. If Summit has them buy from them.

[Shiny]

I agree it's irrational and could feel deceptive.

Just curious if Comp admitted to selling DIRECTLY through Amazon?

Was Amazon the seller or was it a different company?

I respect Amazon for refunding. This is one reason I buy from them. They are liberal on returns and it's easy to ship stuff back.

Glad it's going to work out and hope you can influence both Amazon and Comp to clarify.

I suspect Amazon would NOT sell Comp products if they wouldn't honor their warranty. This is why I wondered if the parts were actually sold by a partner THROUGH Amazon. This would make more sense to me.

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I agree it's irrational and could feel deceptive.

Just curious if Comp admitted to selling DIRECTLY through Amazon?

Was Amazon the seller or was it a different company?
.

The seller was Amazon, not someone using Amazon as a sales channel.

Comp did not clarify either way how Amazon got access to their product.

Check it out for yourself: https://www.amazon.com/Cams-19060-16...001O0FSLG&th=1