[RamAirIV28]

oil carries the dirt to the filter befor it lubes the engine.

larger chunks fall to the bottom of the pan

oil gets changed....dirt gets removed

kinda basic

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by David Jones

Trying to put this in perspective.
20,000 miles on 3 year old oil.
To get there you change one quart every 3000 miles. (no additions for oil use or leakage?)
Change filters every 3000 miles.
So, when you get to 21,000 miles you'll have "changed" roughly 7 quarts of oil and 7 filters during this period when you didn't change the oil.
To allow this extended period of not changing the oil one needs to spend how much on a Frantz filter system? Their site leads one to believe the product is $225, plus install?
Yes, you have 250,000 miles on your truck.
No big deal these days.
On my current Ford F150 I have 33,000 miles. I've changed the oil 3 times using Mobil 1 and a Purolator filter purchased at Walmart. Seems like 5qts is about $24. The engine holds 7.7qts and to this point uses little to no oil between changes. We'll say 8 qts total over the life of a 10,000 oil change....and one filter. Total oil/filter cost every 10,000 miles is less than $45. For every 100,000 miles I travel my oil change costs will be approx $450.
Will I drive it 250,000 miles? Like most folks, probably not. More like 150,000. Seems like I'll be ahead in time spent and money spent simply by following what Ford recommends?

First of all the subject added 2 quarts of make up oil, it's noted in the oil analysis. He didn't change the filter every 3000 miles and I don't either, that is the Frantz websites recommendation.

He changed it 5 times in 20,000 miles 5 quarts of makeup oil plus 2 quarts of oil usage total 7 quarts $25 in oil and $15 in filters plus he used regular oil to start with so he cuts the cost in half over synthetic. The point you miss is his oil is never in the range of insoluble solids continually wearing engine parts, that it is doing damage to the engine. The additives aren't being depleted as you admitted yours were. That engine should run at least 750,000 miles at the rate it's going. The oil is still in great shape so there is no need to change it at the 20,000 mile mark. The oil will probably run 30-40,000 miles safely. The savings can't just be told in how much oil and filters are being used, it's stopping premature engine wear breakdowns and down time. He can service the filter and add oil in about 5 minutes without crawling under the truck.

One other thing since the Frantz unit is the same the unit can be easily removed and transferred to the next vehicle you buy so the $225 investment is one time only. Anyone that has average mechanical skill can install one, no real need to take it to a mechanic for installation.

There is no downside to having oil clean from the time it's added to the engine until you decide to replace it. The oil after 20,000 miles is still pristine compared to what you drain out at 10,000 miles and it's not transporting sub 20 micron abrasives through the engine at any time.

If you can find any downside to an more efficient oil filtering system then maybe you can also find that cast rods and 9779068 camshafts are all that's needed in a high performance Stratostreak engine too. Hey it still works, for awhile, and it's damn sure to be cheaper than forged rods and roller hydraulic cams.

Better technology is not only measured in dollars and cents, it's measured in upkeep, durability and downtime too. If you choose to stay in the past doing it the same way it's been done since the late 50s that's your choice. If you think I'm here to sell Frantz filters and make a bunch of money off of the sales you'd be dead wrong. So far for my $2300. dollar investment I've recouped $250. My major reason is to inform people that even if someone buys a different brand of by pass filter I could care less. The use of the full flow filter is antiquated and if your waiting for any major auto manufacturer to change the system and make the engines run longer trouble free you'll be waiting forever, they want to continue to sell cars, not make them last longer.

That's the perspective David, not here trying to sell anything, there are numerous companies that make by pass filters, they're all pretty much the same as far as performance. Read up on it, I wish I would have many years ago and I would have probably saved myself some grief as well as down time and money. If you think it's too good to be true, or it's snake oil, by all means research it and find out for yourself about the advantages of by pass filtering. If not, keep doing it the same way it's been done for the last 60+ years, no worries here.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by RamAirIV28

oil carries the dirt to the filter anything smaller than 20 microns goes right through befor it lubes the engine.

larger chunks fall to the bottom of the pan and create the beginnings of sludge deposits.

oil gets changed.... some dirt gets removed..... some stays in the engine and can continue to circulate causing unnecessary wear and sludge formation.

kinda basic

I fixed it for you.

Your understanding about oil and filtering in I/C engines leaves out a lot of details of the reality of what actually happens in an engine.

[David Jones]

Interesting.
For those that might keep a vehicle for more than the service life of an engine when cared for by the manufacturer's maintenance schedule (200,000+ miles?) a Frantz might begin to make sense. Not many people do that. Cared for per the mfg's schedule I suspect that downtime from premature wear due to poor lubrication isn't to much of a problem the way folks I know use/keep a vehicle. The vehicles I've seen with multiple hundreds of thousands of miles on them generally have issues way beyond the engine running correctly.
Your truck has 250,000 miles on it. You have 3 year old oil in the engine that has 20,000 miles on it. So you drive a 1976 model? Will you still have it at 350,000 miles?

[Sirrotica]

It's a 93 K3500 turbo diesel 4x4 dually, I'll keep it until there are rust issues with the frame. I just installed air ride suspension on the rear axle and am planning to install air ride on the front suspension. I have only bought 2 new vehicles in my life, the 2005 GTO and I also bought a 2008 Vibe for my wife. I more than likely will never buy a new car again and I usually drive my vehicles for close to 200,000 miles. That's before I started using by pass filters. That should be exceeded now by a huge margin unless rust issues force my hand. The 93 will last me awhile as I only use it for the most part in the winter when the GTO is put away. If it gets to 350,000 miles for my winter ride, as well as towing all the trailers and car dollies I own plows snow and runs really well. Maybe it will make a half million miles.

I just bought a 03 GP with just under 150,000 on it that needs an engine. The replacement engine will have a by pass filter on it that will be the daily driver so I can save some money on fuel and not use the GTO as a daily driver hopefully making it last until I die or quit driving.

I also purchased an 88 IH S1600 ex U Haul truck with a 7.3 IDI diesel and have shortened the frame and mounted a wrecker body on it to make a few bucks with, as well as have a wrecker for myself. The IH has 220,000 miles on it and had a reman short block installed at 210,000 by U Haul. When I finish it and get it on the road it will also have a by pass filter system in it.

I'm the guy that buys the vehicles that other people sell because they are older and they want something newer. Then I drive them, or repair them and sell them at a profit. There are more of us around than you think there are and people like myself want as many trouble free miles from their old stuff as possible. By pass filtering makes sense for any machine new or old and will definitely keep the engine going a lot longer than a full flow system will. I'm completely sold on the idea, you may not think it's a wise move and maybe for you it's not, and that's fine with me. To get maximum mileage out of high mileage vehicles it will do nothing but help clean the inside of a dirty engine up and keep the oil nearly pristine for many many miles.

$225 is really a drop in the bucket compared to other parts the people on this forum spend on engines. There is no downside to having clean oil all the time instead of just after an oil change.

How many people on this forum have good intentions of changing their oil and due to life's little problems it gets put off and put off until it's well over the miles you wanted to change it at? It would be nice not to have to worry about doing engine damage by running over your target mileage. As miles pile on the oil the more and more abrasive it gets the longer it's in the engine. By pass filtering keeps the oil as close to new for many thousands of miles, if you run over 1,000-2,000 miles the oil is still going to be clean. The only way the filter will not filter oil is if gets fully blocked. No big issue because the full flow filter will still function. I've run mine as high as 10,000 on my truck and the by pass filter was still working. Nice thing about these filters is just by laying your hand on it with the engine warmed up it will tell you if it's blocked, it will be cold to the touch if it's totally blocked. Because of a by pass filters design the oil just runs to the filter and back to the oil pan there is no loss of oil volume to internal engine parts, the system just reverts back to only a full flow filter system, same as before you installed the by pass filter.

One more piece of information is the Frantz filter, it is the only bypass filter to be certified for use on an airplane engine by the FAA. When Frantz went out of business in the 80s the certification lapsed and it was never reinstated by the man that bought the Frantz rights in the 90s. To be certified by the FAA it would have to be a soundly engineered product, which it is and have no detriment to an aviation engine.