[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Great job, love the bird on the hood.

Not an advocate of this, just a tid bit.....

Five tips for fastest pinewood derby - CHEATS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJw4DTcWwrg



.

There are more tips, mine are legal......

[Hikin Mike]

This was my daughter's first car.


This was MY derby car when I was a Boy Scout.

[lust4speed]

My son is 30 years old so these were made a while ago, and rules have changed. We still have all our cars hermetically sealed for posterity. Well, at least they're in an old freezer bag and more or less out of harms way. If you look at the yellow coupe you can see one of our creations that created a little discontent the first time it went down the track. The starting system was released by hand and the hollow nose was good for two car lengths every race no matter how fast they attempted to drop the lever. Next year our design was banned, but we had moved on to other things by then anyway.

[Judge-1969]

This was last year's car. My son took third that year. Third was pretty good since the year before his car barely made it over the finish line. We knew absolutely nothing about building cars then so it has been quite the experience. I tried to share some of my tips from what I had learned to my son's friends dads but they didn't seem too interested. Many of them waited almost to the night before to start and finish the cars.

[lemansboy70]

My first pinewood was in the middle '70s. My dad took my car to the parts store he managed. The crew there REALLY got into it. They put a beautiful candy-blue paint job on it with a driver and zoomie headers and tuned it to the nth degree. I had no input at all.

Comes the night of the competition, I win best paint and was WAY faster than any of the others. When the Scout Master asked me about my car, I had no idea!

The nest year, I told my dad I wanted to build it myself. Not quite as pretty, but I did it myself. Won third place, but I was thrilled! I guess you know which one I was most proud of.

[pontiacmark]

Awana Grand Prix post I made in 2013 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=727153
Also did Cub Scouts with my son. Dads can be VERY competitive. See the movie Down and Derby references above. One year they had a parent's division so I entered a car that did not change the block shape. I decorated like an ACME crate for Wyle E Coyote and did all the tricks underneath (extended wheel base, 3 wheels touching, polished axles, etc.) It was funny to see that brick dominate. Most importantly though, through both events I got to spend time with kids teaching them valuable skills. Both can now run a drill press and sand with the best of them.

[Shiny]

Congrats on the successes and great to see it's still going on.

I probably helped my 3 sons with at least 2 cars each.. some of their cars are still around somewhere. They looked cool but I don't remember them going so fast. I enjoyed the time spent with each of them on this and lots of other Cub and Boy Scout stuff.

Originally Posted by pontiacmark

.... Dads can be VERY competitive....

Yes we can!

My dad set a high bar.. "beat everybody" was one of his mantras.. and he usually did.

A couple years before he died, I gave him back the Pinewood Derby car he and I built when I was probably 9 or 10 for Fathers' Day.

He wanted me to follow his athletic self to success in life but I did not get his genetic predisposition. He loved that I liked to build stuff as he did so this derby car was a big deal to him. I actually liked the wire-track rocket races better but I do remember his "enthusiasm" for the Pinewood Derby.

What really got his competitive juice flowing was when I agreed to enter the Soap Box Derby a couple years later. Now that was a true lesson in Dads (and me) can be competitive! You can see in the photo I stuck the Pinewood car in a flag case in front of pictures of my two Soap Box cars (1968 and 1969). This gift was more about the Soap Box Derby. Honestly, his support with that was a huge gift from him to me. If anyone else was in the Soap Box Derby back then you probably know what I mean and we can start a different thread.

[Steve C.]

"There are more tips, mine are legal......"

Good point. My grandsons have done Pinewood Derby in Scouts. It was my son who told me all about the different tricks involved. He made sure his kids cars were legal and as pointed out here made his boys do most of the work on them if possible.

Great stuff posted here !


.

[Judge-1969]

Not sure how other scout troops handle the rules but my son's troop had a whole list of dos and don'ts. Car could not weigh more than 5 oz, you had to use the axles that came with the kit, you could de-burr them and polish them but you could not bend them. The wheels could not be lightened at all, and probably a few more I can't think of at the moment.

Enjoy hearing everyone's stories about this! I was in scouts back in the early 80's and my dad and I made a car. I took 1st that year! My dad loved working and setting up cars! A few years after we both got involved in RC racing. That was a hoot! I'm not sure they even do that kind of stuff anymore, at least they don't around here.

[bird72]

Been decades since I have done that Pinewood father / son thing, fond memories.

I remember ones entered by small kids that kind of looked like they were made in dads commercial grade home wood shop And air compressor pro painted...….. but the kids might have been talented too....

[Verdoro 68]

Originally Posted by Judge-1969

Not sure how other scout troops handle the rules but my son's troop had a whole list of dos and don'ts. Car could not weigh more than 5 oz, you had to use the axles that came with the kit, you could de-burr them and polish them but you could not bend them. The wheels could not be lightened at all, and probably a few more I can't think of at the moment.

There's a list of pretty basic rules, but the enforcement seems to vary by pack. Our pack had similar rules to yours. You had to use the parts in the box and couldn't modify the wheelbase. They didn't say you couldn't lighten the wheels so we lathed a good bit of the inside out.

Originally Posted by Judge-1969

A few years after we both got involved in RC racing. That was a hoot! I'm not sure they even do that kind of stuff anymore, at least they don't around here.

Yes, they do! I got my son a Traxxas Bandit a few years ago and we've been gradually hopping it up. The technology has definitely changed since my old RC-10 back in the '80s. Fun hobby.

[Hikin Mike]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

The technology has definitely changed since my old RC-10 back in the '80s. Fun hobby.

I got into RC Cars too. Still have my RC10 and RC12 in a box.

[dhcarguy]

A couple of good friends of mine had sons in the boy scouts. I gave them each over 100 trophies from car shows over the years. The dads would get together and take them apart (if need be) and make trophies for the winners. It saved them a lot of money and were able to give much nicer one at the derby.

[NeighborsComplaint]

My son and I competed in Pinewood Derby a looooong time ago. They had 2 classes, sportsman (for kids who built their own) and masters (lots of dad's handiwork). After 2 years of finishing 3rd place in the Den but winning the design awards, our last hurrah was to build a winner. We built a car with every trick we could find that was legal. Laminar flow wing design to lighten wheel/axle friction at speed, machined and micro-polished axles, balance weights, machine turned, lightened and "beaded" wheels, three wheel contact, graphite/molybdenum lube, wheel covers for graphite lube reservoirs, etc, etc. We built a full scale test track and tested various combinations of wheel types, alignment (straight tracking vs rail-rider) on 2 separate cars. We bought all our aftermarket speed parts and build formula from a place called Hodge's Hobby who had a pedigree as a winning car supplier of "speed parts".

We cleaned up at the Den and Pack levels winning the closest race by 8-10 car lengths. The car was insanely fast.

We went on to race at the Regionals (1 step away from the Nationals) which was huge affair. The "Racemaster" had all heats in the computer and came over to tell me our car was clocking significantly faster than all the other cars, faster than the prior year's winner and actually gaining speed every heat while the other cars were slowing down from loss of graphite lube). They did an inspection and determined the car was completely legal and the wheel cover/reservoirs were within the rules.

We finished in 2nd place, losing 1 heat all day due to some "scoutmaster" aligning the car cockeyed on the track causing it to bounce off the center rail. Being a double elimination, we raced the same guy later on and our car beat him easily. We never got to race the first place car but the timer told us our car was faster and our single loss was just the luck of the draw.

A lot has changed since then. You can buy graphite treated wheels and axles and lots of other speed parts but the basic "build formulas" have not changed.

[77 TRASHCAN]

One of the things that helps, is to graphite (it's was legal in the Awana racing I worked with) the wheels and put the car on a treadmill for a couple minutes ( carefully...) then apply graphite at the race, again.

I've read some of the tips and pointers, here. Sometimes they help, sometimes not.

My church competed in our county with 3 other church's. Our 4th-6th grade leader helped prepare the cars for 3 years. We painted them, installed weights, and a few other details. Some of the details were left to the parents...the parents generally did little or nothing. So, we seldom even won one race, most kids were one, and done, that didn't set well with me!!!

One of the 3 years we had a kid who's Dad helped prep the car. That car whooped everyone, including the adult division winner! We had no other trophies, ever. Some cars barely got down track. Our church was not well represented, AT ALL!!!

Well I now serve at another church, still minister to kids, but I became more involved after our class leader moved at my old church.
We generally took 15-25 kids to the race, and man it is a blast. I had the kids pick out a shape of car, and I cut them out. Then let the kids paint them. THEN, I installed the weights, smoother the wheels and axles slightly, and I assembled them. Testing them all on my kitchen table. I could generally tell how good they might possibly do by just rolling them across the table. I tried to make adjustments to make them all roll freely. Some cars just would not roll easy. Another thing, we all know that different types of wood are called soft or hard, and in between. These small chunks of pine could be waaay different densities, requiring different weighting.

My method of weight adding was to router a 1/2 inch groove lengthwise in bottom from axle to axle. I bought stick on wheel weights from the parts store (a box was around $23.00). You could NOT use the sdhesive on the weights to attach them, it won't stay stuck. 2 holes need to be drilled through the weights and into the wood to hold the weights.

One of the most important aspects is the placement of the weights. The fastest cars do run on 3 wheels!!!, but if you can put the weight where the car transitions from down hill to the flat part of the track allowing the wheels to transfer the weight center, the car will momentarily be running on 2 wheels, this deal can make a car into a real Hot Rod!!! The kid with that car will be over joyed. It is difficult to do. I didn't have time to make this happen with most cars.

I built extra cars for the race. We would have new kids come to our church (some knew about the race, and how much fun it was! That was the reason for them coming BUT most kept coming to our church. The Derby was an awesome witness tool for kids...

I raced as a Cub Scout, when I was young. Trophies were presented got 1st through 3rd places. I built MY CAR mostly by myself, because that's the way I thought it should be done!!! Well, guess what? I finished 4th!!! Guess which one of the 7 dwarfs I did NOT resemble after the race!!! The trophy winners were all 100 percent Dad prepped cars, imagine that...

One last tidbit...a guy that worked for my Dad at his Skelly station told me about his exploits when he was a kid. His Dad owned the local small town grocery store, and had little time to work on his car with him. Bruce took his car to the race, stuck the nails and wheels on it, and won first place!!! His only decoration on the block of wood was his name written in pencil!!! Made me feel good!!!

These are some of my "tips"......some

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

My son is 30 years old so these were made a while ago, and rules have changed. We still have all our cars hermetically sealed for posterity. Well, at least they're in an old freezer bag and more or less out of harms way. If you look at the yellow coupe you can see one of our creations that created a little discontent the first time it went down the track. The starting system was released by hand and the hollow nose was good for two car lengths every race no matter how fast they attempted to drop the lever. Next year our design was banned, but we had moved on to other things by then anyway.

There was a rule about the overall length of the cars I helped with at my church. I followed the rules, but got a few A'ha's of others, I believe, wondering why they didn't think of that...unfortunately my notched cars did not do all that well...

[NeighborsComplaint]

Here's a link to Hodge's Hobbies if you're interested in wining Pinewood at a competitive level. They guarantee winning cars following their formula.

http://www.winderby.com./

[KenB]

My son was in Cub Scouts only two years.
Never fast, but got the style award two years, top cars in photo
Took the parents race year two, we wont talk about the cost, mid shelf on left.

Done some corporate fun races with various rules (which I study carefully)
Made an art car with hubless wheels, strictly for show, mid shelf right.

Built a car for a brewery sponsored race, 2nd. Over three heats only 0.006 separated me from the winning car. Next year. (Mid shelf center)
Bottom shelf, two cars banned from corporate races.

2nd photo, most recent outlaw built. Least restrictive rules.
Lead car in the movie Fast and the Fragile. Outclasses everything, but... Too fragile. DNF'd too many heats.

[KenB]

2nd photo
The Fast and th Fragile
Ultra loose rules

[NeighborsComplaint]

A lot has changed as additional classes have been added which allow non-standard parts.

Back when we competed, the car had to be built from the "supplied kit" and use the "supplied" body block, wheels, axles and powdered graphite lube. Hodges Hobby sold wheels which had the appearance of modified originals with different compounds and configurations based on track surface type. Their axles were indistinguishable from the originals including head stamping, but were machined and polished. The graphite-molybdenum dry lube blend they supplied was superior to the approved powdered graphite lube and also undetectable unless the Racemaster was shrewd enough to test with a magnet.

As others have mentioned, the cars used 3 wheel contact only with one front wheel raised off the track. The body was weighted to a balance point that allowed the nose to float at speed reducing the friction on the remaining front axle. Weight was adjusted on race day on the certified scale with the swap of a single screw on the underside selected from varying weights to hit the max allowable. The car was transported in a case with a fitted rail allowing it to be suspended without the wheels touching so as to not alter preset alignment determined from the test track.

No other tricks other than weight, balance point, alignment and setup were allowed. Wheel bushings and moving weights were disallowed and those cars so equipped were disqualified. The track was painted plywood with a center rail and starting line solenoids/plungers to release the cars. Photocells at the finish line determined the winner and computer software recorded elapsed times for each entry in each heat.

At the regional competition, the cars all looked so similar they were nearly indistinguishable for one another other than number and color though ours was the only entry with wheel covers. All were thin wedge, low CG designs. The majority had crowned wheels and a few had "beaded" wheels like ours.