[Skip Fix]

I had the original Herb Adams braces on my car for a number of years, solid bushings in A arms and solid bushings, stiff front springs no problems, except trying to get around the brace and the AC compressor to change #2/4 plugs! Mine bolted on top of the cowl though. Even had them chromed!

[HWYSTR455]

Well judging by your avitar pic Skip, the front wheels didn't spend too much time on the ground! Heh-heh! Or with a lot of weight on them anyway!


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[Z Code 400]

Originally Posted by Murf'sDad

As I remember this is not recommended. The flexing between the body and the subframe with the rubber mounts ends up cracking the firewall where the G-braces mount.

Stewart

Beat me to it HWYSTR455.

This is good information!!!!

OK, on my Formula, it is basically stock, with urethane bushings front/rear, tubular upper/lower control arms and tall ball joints. I am planning on a 'tie' between the sway bar mounts and I was 'considering' the 'G' braces. I will be doing some light autocrossing, but no real road racing.

I've been thinking about replacing my subframe mounts, buut want to try to 'snake' them in one at a time to avoid alignment problems, yet I am not sure I want the 'roughness' of the solid bushings.

What good advice can I get from you guys on this topic???

[HWYSTR455]

There's no noticable 'roughness' to the ride in my opinion, and only gain. It allows the shocks to actually 'work' better, if that makes any sense. New cars don't have bushings, why should you? Go for it, you can always change them if for whatever reason you don't like them, but doubt that will happen.

There are alignment holes on a unibody that you can make a note of where they currently are, and should have no problem keeping the frame where it is now when replacing the bushings. At minimum I believe, you have to do one side at a time, in order to slip the bushings out and new ones in.


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[HWYSTR455]

Here's a couple tips from a vintage VSE handbook. Murf'sDad, Look at the way they did the roll bar in the Cheverra. Another good reference is the VSE built Fire-Am. The anti-squat trick is a must.


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[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

I had the original Herb Adams braces on my car for a number of years, solid bushings in A arms and solid bushings, stiff front springs no problems, except trying to get around the brace and the AC compressor to change #2/4 plugs! Mine bolted on top of the cowl though. Even had them chromed!

Funny you mention that the braces bolt to the top of the cowl area Skip, that's the way it's shown in the pic too. Mine didn't reach, and bolted below the cowl lip, wouldn't fit any other way. Maybe because it is a non-AC car, don't know. But the other thing is that I didn't have to trim the lip to make it sit flat. Maybe they show it that way so it's in place, and not tipped over like in the pic on my car?


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[Murf'sDad]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Here's a couple tips from a vintage VSE handbook. Murf'sDad, Look at the way they did the roll bar in the Cheverra. Another good reference is the VSE built Fire-Am. The anti-squat trick is a must.
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I've got copies of those old FireAm catalogs and the VSE newsletters. The anti-squat trick is just waiting for a few minutes to allow me to do it. Should have done it years ago.

Stewart

[HWYSTR455]

Wish I would have held onto all that stuff, pitched it not thinking I would want it 25+ down the road!

Here's a vintage shot for you, circa 1986, roller 455, worked 1970 64 heads, Offy dual-quad, black stallion AFBs. Even a Jacobs coil! Heh-heh! (Too bad it was so dusty for this pic!)


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[1980 TA]

I've got PTFB's G-braces in mine and they are well worth it. I have braced mine across the top with a piece of 1 inch square tube and now PTFB makes a similar brace. I like mine a little better as it has legs that come down from the center of the bar about 1/2 down the g brace triangulating things more. It made a huge difference when going over driveway cuts as there is no more cowl popping.

When I was running a stock suspension, tieing both g braces together changed the handling dynamics noticeably up front. It went from being fairly neutral to understeering heavily.

I have welded 1 3/4 square tubing under the rocker panesl with struts running back to the frame every 18 inches or so. With the tubes painted black they are hardly noticeable and added a lot of stiffness. I still need to run an angle strut at the front edge back to the frame and then box it ala mustang torque box. This should add some more stiffness to the cowl as the torque box will be right under the cowl.

[Murf'sDad]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Wish I would have held onto all that stuff, pitched it not thinking I would want it 25+ down the road!

Here's a vintage shot for you, circa 1986, roller 455, worked 1970 64 heads, Offy dual-quad, black stallion AFBs. Even a Jacobs coil! Heh-heh! (Too bad it was so dusty for this pic!)
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You stole my valve covers and painted them black!

Stewart

[Z Code 400]

Thanks...

So, what about Urethane body bushings???? Or, should I use steel??? Input ,guys???

I also like the steel brace across the lip of the cowling. The Pro-Tour braces could bolt right through it. I'm thinking I might make one out of aluminum angle stock???

I want to improve the handling as much as possible. I don't have A/C so I have lots of room for the 'G' Braces.

I would love to get more input from you guys on this. I don't want to do anything that is going to make the car 'rattly' like an old station wagon...Robert

[Z Code 400]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

I've got PTFB's G-braces in mine and they are well worth it. I have braced mine across the top with a piece of 1 inch square tube and now PTFB makes a similar brace. I like mine a little better as it has legs that come down from the center of the bar about 1/2 down the g brace triangulating things more. It made a huge difference when going over driveway cuts as there is no more cowl popping....

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

When I was running a stock suspension, tieing both g braces together changed the handling dynamics noticeably up front. It went from being fairly neutral to understeering heavily....

Interesting!!!!

My car is very nuetral in stock form and I don't want ANYTHING that is going to give it a tendency to understeer.

Comments???

[HWYSTR455]

Steel, without a doubt, don't waste your time with poly. The rattles will be less the more you stiffen it.

Think I forgot to mention that as well as the angle steel piece I have below the lip of the cowl, I also have a piece of flat bar stock across the top.

Understeer? I think it's the opposite when you tighten up the front, becomes oversteer. You can tune that with sway bars, shocks, and springs. A little understeer is ok, because you can always steer then with throttle.

Skip Fix - Found the instructions for the VSE Front Structure Kit, attached the pic. The instructions that came with mine say they go under the lip, wonder if they're an earlier version maybe? Yeah, still have the instructions! Talk about a pack rat! Crazy I didn't save the newsletters! Same with the WarPath stuff!

Murf'sDad - Those valve covers are actually still original wrinkle black! Same with the ones I have on the LeMans, and bought them new right about the time Holley aquired M/T, closeouts.

Robert - If you stiffen, it will rattle and squeak less. The remaining rattles are the easy ones to fix if they stand out. The only thing that will rattle to my knowledge is front inner fenders, lower valance, stuff on the core, and exhaust. All stuff that if it rattles now isn't going to rattle anymore by going solid mounts.

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[Z Code 400]

HWYSTAR,

Would the 'G' braces even be necessary on my Formula in your opinion???

[1980 TA]

I run solid bushings as well and they made the ride better not worse.

I think any F Body can benefit from the g braces. The more solid and consistent the structure is, the easier it is to tune it.

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow of the brace that ties the g braces together. I can tell you it really made the braces more effective and noticeably changed the handling of the car. It's pretty easy to make with pretty basic metal working tools.

[HWYSTR455]

Robert - Feel the braces should have come from the factory! As did Herb Adams feel too. Yes, think you'll never look back after installing them, make a world of difference!

1980 TA - I'd lke to see pics of what you did with those braces, as well as the ones along the rocker. Yes, agree, makes the suspension easy to tune, like I mentioned, comes down to the shocks reacting more quickly, sway bars too.


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[pro-tour79]

take a look at Mary Pozzi's Camaro she autocrosses and road races the car, her husband said they got a 30% increase in rigidity after installing the G-braces

[Murf'sDad]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Murf'sDad - Those valve covers are actually still original wrinkle black! Same with the ones I have on the LeMans, and bought them new right about the time Holley aquired M/T, closeouts.
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I've never seen a set that were wrinkle black from the manufacturer. Mine were bought in the late '70's and are plain. I've only been up a short time and I learned something. I can go back to bed now!

Stewart

[Murf'sDad]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

I run solid bushings as well and they made the ride better not worse.

When I put mine in the ride tightened up a lot but didn't get stiff or harsh.

Stewart

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Murf'sDad

I've never seen a set that were wrinkle black from the manufacturer. Mine were bought in the late '70's and are plain. I've only been up a short time and I learned something. I can go back to bed now!

Stewart

The wrinkle paint over time greys, and can become brittle and flake. There are aerosol wrinkle paints, but I've never gotten them to look good. I've had sets that I've stripped and tried to repaint, just never looked good. If a place could offer that as a service, I'd probably send them out and have them redone.

During the M/T - Holley change-over, Holley offered covers that instead of M/T said 'Holley' on them, offered both in plain or wrinkle finish. Never liked those as much.

Ok, 'nuff said, sweet dreams! Heh-heh!

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