FAQ |
Members List |
Social Groups |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#161
|
||||
|
||||
I also doctor the keys, so the one end is a little pointed and narrowed, to allow for slight variations of alignment.
.
__________________
. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#162
|
||||
|
||||
I guess I am just different. I would like a little interference to the fit.
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#163
|
||||
|
||||
The cam is tight too, but not as tight as the crank. I can't get either gear anywhere close to keys, they go on maybe 1/8" or so. The crank sprocket keyways are pretty sharp, but I'm not sure they're even making it to the crank. I'll try gently deburring and wetsanding. I did lube them up which may not be helping. The Butler site says they may need to be honed which is new to me.
Quote:
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - Moser 3.55 Truetrac (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
#164
|
||||
|
||||
I know the Ohio cranks the snouts were so tight at one time, many started checking (and machining) prior to further machine work.
The Romac balancer were really tight too, and those no WAY would go on without doctoring them. It sux when you try to uninstall a balance and/or gears and you have to use pullers/removers on them. .
__________________
. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#165
|
||||
|
||||
AH, ok, so they comment on it, that's good.
It may vary from gear set to gear set too don't trust anything out-of-box. If it's tight on the cam too, and all surfaces are clean, I would be looking at the gears personally. Knock down all sharp edges, etc. On the keys too. .
__________________
. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#166
|
||||
|
||||
I prefer a snug fit, but I don't love the idea of using a puller or installer as I degree in the cam. It's a big enough PITA to get the gears lined up without having to deal with a puller. My last Rollmaster set was really tight on the stock crank. I muscled it on and never felt good about it.
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - Moser 3.55 Truetrac (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
#167
|
||||
|
||||
There's 'snug', but then there's also 'too tight'.
I had one that was 'too tight' one time, needed to use puller/installer. Without knowing it, or feeling it, I pushed a key out and had to pull the cover again. Not fun. .
__________________
. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#168
|
||||
|
||||
Got the replacement rings today and was able to get the last piston installed. Milestone! Re-checked the torque of all the mains and rods then installed the lower dipstick tube, windage tray spacers and stock windage tray which was previously modified to clear the main studs.
I fiddled with the timing set some more. I used a brake cylinder hone to make the cam gear fit more comfortable. That one was pretty easy. The crank gear was a pain. I dressed the woodruff key and used some fine sand paper to knock down some of the edges on the crank gear. I found a couple burrs on the crank snout from my first few test fits so I knocked those down with some emory cloth. I was reading through an old thread where Cliff mentioned heating the crank gear to expand it so I busted out the propane torch, heated it up and it slipped right on. I had to work fast though. I have things lined up dot to dot for starters. The .005 short chain fits like a glove. If I end up needing to advance it, the crank gear will probably need a puller to come off. The one I have isn't thin enough to get between the block and the chain, but I'll cross that bridge if I get there. Now to go refresh my memory to setting up a cam. It's been a few years...
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - Moser 3.55 Truetrac (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) Last edited by Verdoro 68; 09-15-2022 at 02:24 AM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Verdoro 68 For This Useful Post: | ||
#169
|
||||
|
||||
Nice! Yeah I have a hot plate in the garage for just those type of occasions. Could slightly warm it with a heat gun too.
Wish I had access to my notes, but think the rollmaster sets are off a couple degrees, if my memory is serving me right! Know it depends in a number of factors, but that's what I remember. (think it's 3 degrees retarded in my experiences) You can mic the snout and balancer, see if that's going to be stubborn too or not. If you look at the one pic of my mishap, you can see I lightly peened the snout end where the key 'line' is, which helps when lining up the key/keyway during install. In my case, I think since I was using an installer, the turning of the nut/hat of the installer my have turned the balancer along the way, not sure. But the marks helped initially. .
__________________
. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#170
|
||||
|
||||
I believe you are right with the rollmasters being off, because Cliff has posted many times that he refuses to use them.
__________________
I do stuff for reasons. |
#171
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#172
|
||||
|
||||
The cam snout should be sticking out of the gear?
Do you have the cam plate on? Probably need to pry the cam forward and slide the gear on more.
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
The Following User Says Thank You to johnta1 For This Useful Post: | ||
#173
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, it should and I will.
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - Moser 3.55 Truetrac (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
#174
|
||||
|
||||
I'm a little rusty at cam degreeing, but initial indications show I may have gotten lucky here. It was a little too easy so I'm skeptical.
Found top dead center on #1 using a dial indicator, and the degree wheel. Put a lifter in and a pushrod on the #1 intake lifter and set up the dial indicator. Next, I centered up the cam on the apex of the lift. Since it's a roller, it dwells a little bit, so I used the same method you use to find TDC to find the exact top of the cam. This actually put the pointer at 110 on the degree wheel (makes sense as it's the same process as below, just with less distance), so either my measurement is really good or I flubbed a step. Rolling it forward .020 came out to 80 degrees, going back .020 came out to 140. 80+140 = 220. 220/2 = 110, which is the ICL the cam is ground on. 110 degrees came up too many times too easily for me to feel like I did this right. Did I miss something or am I good to go? This felt harder to do last time I did it, but I did it in the car with the head installed.
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - Moser 3.55 Truetrac (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
#175
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#176
|
||||
|
||||
I found the apex of the intake lobe then noted the degree location on the wheel when the lifter was .020 down on either side of the apex following this guy’s video : https://youtu.be/7NO97NNPtuQ
I could have done this only going clockwise, but rather than doing a full rotation I just went clockwise a little bit, then counter clockwise. Open to hearing other methods to ensure I’ve got this thing dialed in correctly.
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - Moser 3.55 Truetrac (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) Last edited by Verdoro 68; 09-15-2022 at 11:46 PM. |
#177
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Mine was pretty much dead on. I would have used a Morse if my block was not aligned bored. With all these timing chain issues I am about to get into Milodon gear drives and be done with it. |
#178
|
||||
|
||||
You should never rotate counter clock wise when degreeing a cam!
If your that pressed for time that you can’t spin the motor around clockwise the amount needed then you should do this important step at a different time .
__________________
I do stuff for reasons. |
#179
|
||||
|
||||
Correct
Only rotate the engine clockwise. As a side note, I know too late now but I usually only assemble the number one piston then degree the cam. Sure makes it a lot easier to rotate the engine. Especially when you're trying to move it that last degree. Overshoot and you have to go around again lol |
#180
|
||||
|
||||
On the tight crank gear, we've talked about that in the past with those 9 keyway setups. On the Pontiacs for what ever reason the crank gear is always super tight. This is not uncommon.
I've always used a little flapper wheel to lightly hone it till I get a nice snug slip fit. Little at a time. I'll dress the edges with a small file if I have to. That's been the norm for the last several I've installed. |
Reply |
|
|