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#1
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Cost to swap a set of headers ... wow.
Called a local muffler shop hoping to have them swap a set of headers out. Mine have lost their luster over the years and I came across a great deal on replacements with a superior ceramic coat job. He told me to bring the car by Friday (yesterday) and they would take care of it.
When I arrived, I told the owner it was a swap of identical headers, same manufacturer and model with no interference issues and brought gaskets and new header bolts also. He declined to come outside to look at the car and asked if I wanted to wait or leave the car. I said "I'd like to know the approx. cost before I do either." The guy tells me $350.00 and I just told him "Really? That sounds like an I don't want to bother with this job price. I thought you wanted to do this." and walked out the door. The last time I was in they only charged me $150 labor to install my complete Flowmaster system including welding the mufflers, header extensions and tips.
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Triple Black 1971 GTO |
#2
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$350 sounds reasonable to me. Getting headers out and in can be a time-consuming ordeal, and I'd think it would take 3-4 hours of labor plus tax. Where I live, labor is often around $100/hr.
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1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread) 1998 BMW 328is (track rat) 2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily) View my photos: Caught in the Wild Last edited by ZeGermanHam; 09-05-2020 at 11:46 AM. |
#3
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Quote:
What happens if he runs into an issue and it ends up taking him all day. He’s gotta pad his estimate just in case.
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1965 Pontiac LeMans. M21, 3.73 in a 12 bolt, Kauffman 461. |
#4
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?
with all the response .Did you hire someone ? Or do the job yourself ?
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#5
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Quote:
If it’s such a simple job then why not DIY? The first/last time I installed headers on a pontiac I spent a ton of time cranking down bolts - some of them 1/8 turn at a time with a modified wrench. I’d probably pass on the job for $150 as well. |
#6
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If i was running a business, not sure i would want to swap a set of Pontiac headers for much less
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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68 Firebird-- Street/Strip - 400/461 Eagle Forged Bottom End & Ross Flat top pistons. KRE 325 CFM D port, Ultradyne 263/271 @.050, .4267 lift. Crower Solid roller lifters and 1.65 stainless rockers. Quickfuel 1000 on Torker2 intake and 2" open spacer. Hedman 1.75" headers. TH400 w/brake. Ford 9" w/3.80 gears & 28x9 Hoosier pro bracket drag radial. Best ET: 1.35 60ft, 6.29 @ 107.20 mph, 9.99 @132.33 mph. 3,300 race weight |
#7
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Someone is still living back in the 1960's. My guess is that once the swap was made, the shop worker who did the swap was going to feel he didn't charge enough for all the aggravation.
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#8
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I would not do them for almost any price and I have a lift.Tom
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#9
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When I was younger and more able, I installed my own, but installing without a lift is an exercise in futility.
I took these Flowtechs off to clean and buff them up about 5 years ago when I had access to a lift. It took me all of an hour to remove and reinstall them by myself. They threaded right up from below and the bolts were all accessible with a box end wrench. with a bit of savvy, you learn the you can remove the front wheels and lower the car on the lift to ease the reach to loosen and tighten the bolts which cuts the time in half. $350 is a ridiculous amount of money for an hour's work.
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Triple Black 1971 GTO Last edited by NeighborsComplaint; 09-05-2020 at 04:24 PM. |
#10
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If it's truly an hour's worth of work, then yes, $350 would be high.
But if it's only an hour's worth of work, I'd just do it myself. It'll take more time out of your day to deal with dropping off and picking up the car at the shop than to just in your garage. Personally, I don't think I could do a header swap in an hour, but that's just me.
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1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread) 1998 BMW 328is (track rat) 2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily) View my photos: Caught in the Wild |
#11
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Unfortunately, most shops assume headers are a CF to install, having installed large tube headers designed with ease of installation a lowest priority. These FlowTechs are 1-7/8" street headers that are designed logically with accessible bolts and zero fitment issues. If all headers were made like these, they would not get the bad rap they do.
At my age, I would rather pay a reasonable amount to have them installed. I have a buddy who works at a transmission shop and will have to duck in there after hours when the boss is gone and pay him cash. I hesitate to do this as it is a long drive in heavy traffic in a really crappy location just off the expressway if you get my drift.
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Triple Black 1971 GTO |
#12
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I never bitch about paying someone to do a job I can't or won't do myself. $350 is reasonable. Or pay your buddy whatever and use his bosses shop and hope nothing goes wrong.
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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2 373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft 308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471 |
#13
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Like other have said..... $350 is very reasonable for the job.....
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Troy Rockaway NJ 67 GTO 400HO / TKX 3.27 1ST GEAR-.72OD / 3.36 POSI HOTCHKIS/UMI/BILSTEIN |
#14
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HEADER COST
I like to consider the following for $350 bucks, no head ache, no knuckle scrapes no back aches and if the gasket doesn't seal HE DOES IT OVER. plus 3 hours to take in a lunch with someone. ;] well worth it to me.
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#15
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"$350 is a ridiculous amount of money for an hour's work."
Yeah, i always tell my wife that my simple project will be done in an hour. Six hours later I might jave the job done Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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68 Firebird-- Street/Strip - 400/461 Eagle Forged Bottom End & Ross Flat top pistons. KRE 325 CFM D port, Ultradyne 263/271 @.050, .4267 lift. Crower Solid roller lifters and 1.65 stainless rockers. Quickfuel 1000 on Torker2 intake and 2" open spacer. Hedman 1.75" headers. TH400 w/brake. Ford 9" w/3.80 gears & 28x9 Hoosier pro bracket drag radial. Best ET: 1.35 60ft, 6.29 @ 107.20 mph, 9.99 @132.33 mph. 3,300 race weight |
#16
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Neighbor's Complaint;
What do the Flowmaster headers look like? Good fitment with P/S, P/B and A/C? I went with Ram Air manifolds from Hooker headers and that swap was easy with the help of a sawzall. For what it's worth; I wouldn't want to swap headers without a floor lift . |
#17
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I have 4 sets of the identical Hooker Super Comps -ALL 4 sets fit different need BFH "massaging" in different spots! I've put these same header in an out a number of times on my 78 TA and the Camaro/Pontiac and it sure is longer than an hour even just a repeat of a set already massaged!
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#18
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You might want to ask the shop owner if he will do the job on a flat rate per hour, time as required. Just be present while the work is performed so no one loses any money, and no one gets enriched beyond the estimate.
Since I've owned my own business and have also installed a bunch of headers while I owned it, there are variables you just can't figure on. As Skip has already said, headers of the same number made on the same jig don't always fit the same. There are also differences in the chassis from car to car especially when you're working on a F body at nearly 50 years old. The body to sub-frame bushing condition make the variance very wide in these older cars. IMO, the fairest way to be sure no one loses, is to establish a rate per hour and then base it off of nearest 1/10th of an hour (6 minutes) start to finish. I'm sure the shop owner based it off of worst case scenario, and if they get it done quicker, they pocket more money if the customer agrees to the initial estimate. It's just like working flat rate where each job is pre-rated by the flat rate book, if you're able to beat the estimate in the flat rate book you pocket the difference. The difference here is the shop owner is writing the flat rate time himself, and I believe he's basing it off a worst case scenario. FWIW, I've done a ton of Pontiac header installs, as well as other brands of cars, and I've done it on the clock and was paid for it, not as my hobby. I don't believe I could do them in an hour, even 25 years ago when I was much younger, and nimble than now. If the shop owner is basing it on $100 an hour shop labor, I do think 3.5 hours is excessive to R&R the same set of headers, hence the reason I suggested labor based on actual time spent doing the R&R (Remove & replace). I would say if it's based on actual time spent, it's going to be around 2 hours, from the time the car is lifted off the ground til its set back down on the ground ready to drive out the door. That would be my estimate having done it numerous times. I would go for 3.5 hours if I was removing the stock manifolds, and doing it from scratch the first time, I used to figure 3 hours when I was installing headers on cars, and removing the stock system................... |
#19
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Quote:
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#20
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So I've rethought this process..I really think 3.5 hours is fair. The proper way is do the r/r...take the car off the hoist...fire it up..check for apparent leaks...take it for a test drive...get on the throttle ..get the heat into the engine...back to the shop...let it cool back on the hoist retighten bolts.
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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2 373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft 308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471 |
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