[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Kenth

See post #11.

FWIW

Ah I missed this. Yeah so the measurements he's taken should be good if they are those locations.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by chiphead

I've got some slack in the center link where it attaches to the pittman arm. I can feel it in the steering wheel and went looking for root cause. The ball joint or whatever in the center link is worn, and is sloppy in its socket. Is this a safety issue or just an annoyance?

Who is the best source for center links, tie rod ends, etc for a front end rebuild? Will those steering parts work with UMI or SPC suspension parts? I've gotten good feedback in the suspension section, but need the steering parts too.

Safety issue, tire wear issue, and annoyance. The center link and idler arm are the two 'usual suspects' in a loose front end. The ball joints, tie rod ends, etc. last much longer. The pitman arm is a non wear item and never needs to be replaced....those selling replacements are taking advantage of those who don't know that. Kind of like a panhard bar or an A arm. Non-wear items.

Check the upper A arm bushings closely for shifting and wear...I've put 3 or 4 sets in my '67 over the past 40 years, and only one set of lowers. The exhaust heat really kills the upper ones. And the poly ones fall apart and turn to dust.

[Joe-Touring]

Originally Posted by chiphead

How do you choose springs when going from a drag set-up to a road-handling setup? I'd like 9-10" in the back and 8.5" in the front with it all sorted out.

From what I've seen, every car is a bit different, so it's difficult to make a blanket statement for ride heights. 1 inch drop springs can do a lot of different things depending on what springs were in there to begin with, and how worn and sagged they are. Most aftermarket springs advertise a 1 inch drop, but I'd bet that they all sit different.

Anywho, my recommendation is to try to find some pics of cars that are running the suspension setup that you're interested in.

Relevant ride height specs for my car:
67 LeMans
SPC springs
Front: SPC upper/lower control arms, full stack of SPC spring shims, 0.5" taller lower ball joint, Bilstein HD shocks, Hellwig front sway bar
Rear: UMI boxed LCAs, UMI rotojoint UCAs, 69 Chevelle 12 bolt, Hellwig pro-touring sway bar
Wheels/tires: Trans Am Race Engineering Superlites, 17x8, 4.5" backspace, 0 offset. BF goodrich SportComp2s 245/45/17 25.7" diameter
Last pic wheels and tires have same specs but are Cragar Soft8s and Firestone Firehawk Indy500s.

[Malibu]

I just rebuilt the steering in my 69 with Moog parts and all boxes stated Made in the USA.
Nice to see that.

[chiphead]

Originally Posted by Joe-Touring

From what I've seen, every car is a bit different, so it's difficult to make a blanket statement for ride heights. 1 inch drop springs can do a lot of different things depending on what springs were in there to begin with, and how worn and sagged they are. Most aftermarket springs advertise a 1 inch drop, but I'd bet that they all sit different.

Anywho, my recommendation is to try to find some pics of cars that are running the suspension setup that you're interested in.

Relevant ride height specs for my car:
67 LeMans
SPC springs
Front: SPC upper/lower control arms, full stack of SPC spring shims, 0.5" taller lower ball joint, Bilstein HD shocks, Hellwig front sway bar
Rear: UMI boxed LCAs, UMI rotojoint UCAs, 69 Chevelle 12 bolt, Hellwig pro-touring sway bar
Wheels/tires: Trans Am Race Engineering Superlites, 17x8, 4.5" backspace, 0 offset. BF goodrich SportComp2s 245/45/17 25.7" diameter
Last pic wheels and tires have same specs but are Cragar Soft8s and Firestone Firehawk Indy500s.

I really like that stance! What is the ride height?
How do those wheels/tires fit the wheelhouses? Any rubbing or did you have to roll any sheetmetal? My Ford 9" is stock width at 60" drum-drum. Is your rear 60" wide?

[chiphead]

Just started pulling the steering linkage apart. The center link and one tie rod end is wasted.

While I'm in there, I'd like to swap the steering box for a quick turn box. What are my options for a bolt-in quick turn box?

[1968GTO421]

I followed the lead of some other members here and went with the Borgeson box. They are located here in Greenville County on the south side of TR. Great box, steers like a newer car does with rack/pinion. Here is the web page for it.

https://www.borgeson.com/Borgeson-St...7-1-Ratio.html

Best of luck with you on your rebuild of suspension/steering.

[AG]

Perfect stance to me on the LeMans Joe.

[chiphead]

Got the borgeson box swap finished up last night. It's a direct fit for the stock PS box. It even has the correct master splines on the output shaft. An early review (10 years ago) showed a version that didn't have the master splines, you had to grind them. This one, the factory pitman arm fit perfectly.

You don't have to use the borgeson half-rag, a CLP-RJC730R rag joint is a perfect fit. If I had to do it again, I would use the borgeson lines, the factory lines don't have the O-ring and require the flare adapters, which come with the box.

Haven't driven it yet, but it feels really nice and tight. Hardest part was bleeding the air out of the system. The box itself holds a lot of fluid.

[kingbuzzo]

looks like a sweet upgrade...putting on xmas list

[ZeGermanHam]

I think I may eventually end up going the Borgeson box route, too. I have about 100 miles on my (nearly finished) 66 GTO restoration with all new everything from front to rear, top to bottom. Pro-touring suspension, the works. I currently have a reman'd Jeep Grand Cherokee box which has a nice quick ratio, but feels dead on center to me. It's not terrible, but I was expecting better. Maybe I've just gotten too used to modern cars.

[chiphead]

I'll continue to document the upgrades here.

So I looked around, and the 18" wheels that will fit the C5 brakes are going to be $750 each. So looks like the AFX spindle is off the table for now. So that means I'm sticking with the stock style spindles. Except my spindles aren't stock, they are a factory single piston disc brake setup from likely a '70-72 donor.

How do I positively ID the spindles installed in the car now? Don't want to get it all apart and find I have some weird tall spindle. I don't know what I'm looking at?

I called global west and talked to them about their tubular A arms. The sales guy suggested the CTA-42A uppers with del-a-lum bushings. He did not recommend using the tall ball joint when using the short spindles (which I didn't understand from everything I've read here). He did say I would want the offset shafts. How do I tell if I need the offset shafts with these upper arms?

Lowers would be the CTA-42L

For the springs, he recommended S-5 big block springs with 550lbs-inch rating. Should give 1 inch drop from stock. He could do a set of springs heavier or softer if I had a preference. He also mentioned that I could go to a coil-over system, better adjustability, spring rate, etc. Should I go traditional coils or coil-over?

Am I on the right track?

[JLMounce]

Global West may simply not have tested their product with anything other than a standard ball joints. In such cases, it can be more of a CYA to not recommend a certain part. Not because of anything to do with it not working, but because it can open them up to some amount of liability.

You want the tall ball joints. Control arms can't do anything about the camber curve. They can only affect caster and by way of their design aid in more aggressive alignment settings. If you want the car to achieve higher levels of grip in cornering, you have to also correct the camber curve. The only way to do that outside of a tall spindle or tall ball joints is to relocate the upper control arm mounting points on the frame itself. On the F-Body, this is known as the Guldstrand Mod. It's not impossible to do on the A-Body frame, but the design of the upper mount makes it pretty difficult to achieve.

You're going to want the offset shafts. It will help you achieve a better alignment without a massive stack of alignment shims.

As far as spindle identification, it's unlikely you have some sort of tall spindle in there. You can identify a drum spindle from a disc spindle by the anchor bolt mounting boss. The drum spindle has a much larger boss than the disc spindle. Here's a good read on the spindles from Pozzi Racing. https://pozziracing.com/brakes.htm#disc_brake_spindle

Since budget is a concern, I would stick with standard coil springs and put the savings towards your wheel and tire setup. The tires are easily the most important part of this whole equation and you have to get away from 15" wheels to open up your tire options.

[chiphead]

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know on the control arms.
Any feedback on the spring rate?

[79 Phoenix]

I have found rockauto.com to be a good source of quality OER stock parts-- many with name brands. I've successfully used many on my 79 Phoenix and am replacing whole front suspension and steering components (except steering gear) on my GT-37 from parts I bought from Rock Auto. Don't know how these new ones work yet-- I also have bought my MOOG springs and KYB shocks from them. Prices are at least 30% less than other sources. I estimated springs as best I could from research but may need to make adjustments to get ride height like I want it.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know on the control arms.
Any feedback on the spring rate?

550 is pretty par for the course on the A-Body with a BBC. It's still a little undersprung in my opinion, but there's noticeable handling difference and the ride is still compliant.

[chiphead]

I ordered the GW uppers with offset shafts and a set of coil springs and their 1-1/8" front swaybar. Salesguy said a larger bar starts to compromise ride quality for one-wheel bumps. He also strongly recommended using double adjustable front shocks. Is the cost of the DAs justified for a spirited street driver? What brand would you guys recommend in the sub-300 ea range?

[HWYSTR455]

Viking smooth body shocks are very good, and are about $250ea. When you buy the set, it's under $1k.

Not sure what wheels you were looking at for $750ea, the Ridler, US Mag, and even some American Racing wheels are under $250ea.

The GW springs are quality, and the QA in regards to linear rate is excellent. Most spring manufacturers use a tolerance of @ 10%, the GW springs are <5%.

Not going to get into coilover or variable rate spring topic, but if you do your homework, you will see they are inferior to standard coil spring.

I'm not going to get into the tall ball joint debate either, but will say my personal opinion is they do not provide the performance one would expect.

The CTA-42A uppers are quality pieces and a lot of design effort went into them. They work, near zero deflection.

As I mentioned in other threads, the knock-off lower tubular control arms are way better than OE, and well worth the money. Just change the ball joint and you're good. Best $200 you can spend where you're at now.

Make sure you have the recommended psi & flow rate for the Borg box, or you will not be too happy with it. If it's in question, call and ask for a matching pump. Flow valves are a bag of worms for the 800 series boxes. Borg makes direct replacement pumps, it's a no-brainer to match with the box.




.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by chiphead

I ordered the GW uppers with offset shafts and a set of coil springs and their 1-1/8" front swaybar. Salesguy said a larger bar starts to compromise ride quality for one-wheel bumps. He also strongly recommended using double adjustable front shocks. Is the cost of the DAs justified for a spirited street driver? What brand would you guys recommend in the sub-300 ea range?

The sway bar adds wheel rate as torsion is applied from uneven loading, so yes, it will start to cause a degradation in ride quality. If you have to start using really huge sway bars, it's a good indication that your spring package is too light.

For a street car, the car you selected will be fine.

There are some advantages to the double adjustable shocks. Being able to fine-tune the compression and rebound can absolutely help you out with the car's ability to transfer its available grip to the pavement. Is it worth the up-charge on a street car? That's really up to you as the buyer.

I can tell you that for my car, I opted not to spend the money on the double adjustables. I run a set of non-adjustable Verishocks which have served me well.

The one thing that I've pretty much heard everywhere is to not bother with single adjustables. Either spend the coin for the doubles or save on the non-adjustable shocks.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Make sure you have the recommended psi & flow rate for the Borg box, or you will not be too happy with it. If it's in question, call and ask for a matching pump. Flow valves are a bag of worms for the 800 series boxes. Borg makes direct replacement pumps, it's a no-brainer to match with the box.


.

Thanks for the tip, did not know of this problem. Will check in with Borgeson on pumps.