[Jay S]

Originally Posted by carbking

Some 30 years ago, I sent 3 sets to a well-known shop that shall remain anonymous in this thread.

I also sent a crankshaft, flywheel and clutch assembly for balance work.

According to the shop foreman, rods came back at C31 (I got one complete set from 3). They haven't failed yet. But 2 complete sets were destroyed getting one final set.

When I asked about redline, his answer (not going to mention here) elicited a "not with my feet in the car" response from me.

So far, quite happy.

And no, I won't name the shop, as they don't to my knowledge generally do work outside their own; but the shop owner owed me a favor.

Jon

Hi Jon, was the issue that required 3 sets of connecting rods to find the correct procedures or treatment process, or was it from finding 2 extra sets of parts that were inferior and did not work?

[carbking]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Hi Jon, was the issue that required 3 sets of connecting rods to find the correct procedures or treatment process, or was it from finding 2 extra sets of parts that were inferior and did not work?

I had three sets and only needed one; I don't know, nor do I care, what they did with the others.

Jon

[Formulajones]

I went through similar as Jay but only 2 sets of factory rods just to get 8 good ones, and that was 25 years ago so I don't know what you guys are doing now or even why as it just gets more difficult as time goes. I don't bother with factory rods on builds today even for mild stuff it just doesn't make financial sense, especially when the rest of the build is so expensive today.

[GTO-relic]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I went through similar as Jay but only 2 sets of factory rods just to get 8 good ones, and that was 25 years ago so I don't know what you guys are doing now or even why as it just gets more difficult as time goes. I don't bother with factory rods on builds today even for mild stuff it just doesn't make financial sense, especially when the rest of the build is so expensive today.

If you're not going to use the factory forgings, the only other acceptable rods are vintage aftermarket like Crower Sportman, or buy new Carillo, Oliver rods.
Not the Chinese Dollar General stuff.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by GTO-relic

If you're not going to use the factory forgings, the only other acceptable rods are vintage aftermarket like Crower Sportman, or buy new Carillo, Oliver rods.
Not the Chinese Dollar General stuff.

There is a large misconception of what is Chinese and us made. Basically just because it says usa doesn't necessarily mean it's made in the usa. The majority still comes from China, only 1 or more processes are done in the US and using that loophole many claim USA made when in reality it came from China to start with. Not all companies are that way but the majority are so no matter how hard you try to keep everything USA made I guarantee there are Chinese parts mixed in whether someone wants to admit it or not. And all this complaining about China this or that is a mute point when I don't see anyone complain about the price.

But I don't care about any of that. There are plenty of excellent rod choices out there, we don't need to be sorting through 60 year old rods to put in engines that already cost $10-$15,0000 to build. Anyone that wants to do that is just a crazy person. And all the victories you speak of were again, 60+ years ago when you could buy the rods new. This ain't 1962 anymore last I checked. But hay if you want to source relics and then spend $100's on them to make them usable, no one is stopping you. We might think you're nuts but you're welcome to it

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

There is a large misconception of what is Chinese and us made. Basically just because it says usa doesn't necessarily mean it's made in the usa. The majority still comes from China, only 1 or more processes are done in the US and using that loophole many claim USA made when in reality it came from China to start with. Not all companies are that way but the majority are so no matter how hard you try to keep everything USA made I guarantee there are Chinese parts mixed in whether someone wants to admit it or not. And all this complaining about China this or that is a mute point when I don't see anyone complain about the price.

But I don't care about any of that. There are plenty of excellent rod choices out there, we don't need to be sorting through 60 year old rods to put in engines that already cost $10-$15,0000 to build. Anyone that wants to do that is just a crazy person. And all the victories you speak of were again, 60+ years ago when you could buy the rods new. This ain't 1962 anymore last I checked. But hay if you want to source relics and then spend $100's on them to make them usable, no one is stopping you. We might think you're nuts but you're welcome to it

This all makes sense to me.

IMO, China isn't the problem. I view it as US companies compromising quality to get cheap material and parts. All that metallurgical QA GTO-relic describes can be done in China. But it costs money. If an aerospace company is buying metal or parts made in China or India, I suspect they get what they want and they pay for it. They aren't going to blindly buy stuff and hope it's good.

If, however, a US aftermarket company depends on low costs to stay in business, they have a hard time paying for QA.... especially on low-volume parts. Just my 2c. I think accountability got lost when manufacturing got farmed out. It's easy now to blame your quality and reliability issues on a supplier that you choose not to manage, then try to fix it by changing suppliers.

[GTO-relic]

Fireball Roberts set the pole for the 1963 Daytona 500 at a speed of 160.943 mph. This marked his third consecutive pole position at Daytona with a Pontiac.
The average speed for the 1963 Daytona 500 was 151.556 mph.
Pontiac 421 equipped cars finished 7th and 8th, ahead of Smokey Yunick's 9th place 427 Mystery Motor equipped car, who had defected from Pontiac to Chevy that year.
500 mile NASCAR race with average speed of 151mph, is a 3-1/2 hour race.
Using factory forged GM SD421 rods.
That requires sustained 6300rpm engine speeds for 3.5 hours.

Vintage forged, heat treated, USA-made connecting rods are not weak.

The SD455 rod is even stronger.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by GTO-relic

Fireball Roberts set the pole for the 1963 Daytona 500 at a speed of 160.943 mph. This marked his third consecutive pole position at Daytona with a Pontiac.
The average speed for the 1963 Daytona 500 was 151.556 mph.
Pontiac 421 equipped cars finished 7th and 8th, ahead of Smokey Yunick's 9th place 427 Mystery Motor equipped car, who had defected from Pontiac to Chevy that year.
500 mile NASCAR race with average speed of 151mph, is a 3-1/2 hour race.
Using factory forged GM SD421 rods.
That requires sustained 6300rpm engine speeds for 3.5 hours.

Vintage forged, heat treated, USA-made connecting rods are not weak.

The SD455 rod is even stronger.

There is a big difference between rubber rods and early SD rods. The Sd rods had a noticeable ring to them when tapped together. Rubber rods did not because the steel was not as good. Even with better steel the beams are spindly.
SD 455 rods are "OK" but if Jim Butler himself tells me that those rods can break just looking at them sideways (he did) that tells you a lot.
No sense in living in the past. Hard to even find rubber rods anymore.
Its a fact that generic H beams are stronger (when checked out, just good cores) than any OEM Pontiac rod.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

SD 455 rods are "OK" but if Jim Butler himself tells me that those rods can break just looking at them sideways (he did) that tells you a lot.

Yes, it does. It tells you Jim has an unlimited supply of Eagle rods to sell.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Yes, it does. It tells you Jim has an unlimited supply of Eagle rods to sell.

Maybe, but a good set of aftermarket rods is cheap insurance IMO. I sold my 455 SD rods to a guy who ruined one of his. The engine was only a high 10 second 428 with RAIV heads. Pretty mild.
A big Chevy builder did the machine work on my first 455. He never seen a set of SD 455 rods. He did not like the big end or the small end.

[GTO-relic]

1962 Daytona 500 SD421 Fireball Roberts vs. Richard Petty
SD421 with GM forged rods wins.

https://classics.nascar.com/video/gA...Xn_a~kSa0uCpSx