[carbking]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Hi Jon, was the issue that required 3 sets of connecting rods to find the correct procedures or treatment process, or was it from finding 2 extra sets of parts that were inferior and did not work?

I had three sets and only needed one; I don't know, nor do I care, what they did with the others.

Jon

[Formulajones]

I went through similar as Jay but only 2 sets of factory rods just to get 8 good ones, and that was 25 years ago so I don't know what you guys are doing now or even why as it just gets more difficult as time goes. I don't bother with factory rods on builds today even for mild stuff it just doesn't make financial sense, especially when the rest of the build is so expensive today.

[GTO-relic]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I went through similar as Jay but only 2 sets of factory rods just to get 8 good ones, and that was 25 years ago so I don't know what you guys are doing now or even why as it just gets more difficult as time goes. I don't bother with factory rods on builds today even for mild stuff it just doesn't make financial sense, especially when the rest of the build is so expensive today.

If you're not going to use the factory forgings, the only other acceptable rods are vintage aftermarket like Crower Sportman, or buy new Carillo, Oliver rods.
Not the Chinese Dollar General stuff.

[GTO-relic]

[QUOTE=AG;6590623]

Originally Posted by GTO-relic

I thought this thread is about cars, but i was mistaken with the politics.

rods from foreign countries = politics. you're taking money from here, giving it to them over there. did you ever hear of that word tariff ? why do you think it's in the supreme court now. so yes sorry to say chinese rods come down to politics today, more than ever. tell me "rare earth minerals" isn't politics ? is sure as heck is. sorry...but that's the REALITY. admit reality, then face it.

[GTO-relic]

Like Robert Plant always says, there's no escaping our roots.

[GTO-relic]

58-62 rods were in the NHRA and record books and won 1957 Daytona 500. How bad can they be.

Cotton Owens won the 1957 Daytona beach course race, which was the main NASCAR event that year before the Daytona 500 was established in 1959. He drove a 1957 Pontiac prepared by Ray Nichels, winning the 160-mile race with an average speed of 101.541 mph.

[GTO-relic]

Get a reality check

Paul Goldsmith was the winner of the 1958 Daytona 500, which was the last race held on the old Daytona Beach and Road Course. He drove a Pontiac in the final event before the new, high-banked Daytona International Speedway was built for the following year's race.

[GTO-relic]

They had to run stock rods

In the 1960 Daytona 500, the rear window of Bobby Johns's Pontiac was blown out by high winds, causing him to lose control and spin out with only nine laps left. The incident occurred while Johns was in the lead, and he was passed by Junior Johnson, who went on to win the race.

[GTO-relic]

Pontiac won 1961-62 Daytona 500 with SD421 forged rods. How many times did the Chinese rods win Daytona in a Pontiac ?

Marvin Panch won the 1961 Daytona 500 in a 1960 Pontiac built and owned by Smokey Yunick. He took the lead with 13 laps to go after race leader Fireball Roberts suffered a blown engine. This was Panch's first and only win of the 1961 season.

Fireball Roberts won the 1962 Daytona 500, driving a number 22 Pontiac prepared by Smokey Yunick. He dominated the race, leading 144 of the 200 laps, and secured the win after also taking the pole position and winning the Twin-100 qualifying race.

[GTO-relic]

1963 Tempest
SD421 rods
Beat everyone

A 1963 Pontiac Tempest Super Duty (often referred to as a LeMans) driven by Paul Goldsmith won the 1963 Daytona "American Challenge Cup" race. The race was held on a rainy February 16, 1963, and Goldsmith dominated, leading every lap and beating other sports cars like the Ferrari GTO, which he lapped eight times.

[GTO-relic]

8 of these

[GTO-relic]

There's no reason for you to get exotic.
However, IMHO, Chinese rods is slummin' it.
If you have to, at least buy Carillo, or Oliver.

[GTO-relic]

22 Pontiacs running 421 engines, all with forged GM rods, at 160mph. Paul Goldsmith running 2nd drafting glued to the leader. He ran the 500 and won the challenge.

And you're saying you'd run a Chinese rod instead cuz they're better ?


https://youtu.be/G3RaUtKePKI?si=c_OB6Mr1n1F4FZgh

[GTO-relic]

Better yet, some of you would rather run a cast rod ? Lol !! I'd like to see you say that to Smokey Yunick and Fireball Roberts.
BTW, a forged Pontiac rod set the pole speed at Daytona in 1963 too, with forged GM rods. Beating the 427 Fords and 427 Chevy Mystery Motors.
Goldsmith beat the 427 Chevy Corvettes with the Lemans running a 421 with GM forged rods.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by GTO-relic

If you're not going to use the factory forgings, the only other acceptable rods are vintage aftermarket like Crower Sportman, or buy new Carillo, Oliver rods.
Not the Chinese Dollar General stuff.

There is a large misconception of what is Chinese and us made. Basically just because it says usa doesn't necessarily mean it's made in the usa. The majority still comes from China, only 1 or more processes are done in the US and using that loophole many claim USA made when in reality it came from China to start with. Not all companies are that way but the majority are so no matter how hard you try to keep everything USA made I guarantee there are Chinese parts mixed in whether someone wants to admit it or not. And all this complaining about China this or that is a mute point when I don't see anyone complain about the price.

But I don't care about any of that. There are plenty of excellent rod choices out there, we don't need to be sorting through 60 year old rods to put in engines that already cost $10-$15,0000 to build. Anyone that wants to do that is just a crazy person. And all the victories you speak of were again, 60+ years ago when you could buy the rods new. This ain't 1962 anymore last I checked. But hay if you want to source relics and then spend $100's on them to make them usable, no one is stopping you. We might think you're nuts but you're welcome to it

[Half-Inch Stud]

Ahem, being a PMD snob, i aspire to SD-455 Rods.
Oh butt wait, the 421 build is looking to use CAST 68-79modern vs CAST 67-68, vs 58-62 Prod Forgings. So what

The cast all pressed-off like typical. The Prod Forgings took at least TWICE the Press force, and gosh they look like smooth bright steel. Not SD for sure due to bolt pad length.

So i'm soaking them in Lemon oil to remove the occasional surface rust. Sure don't want to change any of the hardening.

Really impressed with the CAST selection (3-sets) but the hardness of the PROD Forgings that i gots has got to be "reconditioned".

REMINDER: my application is high-MPG TQ for TownCar towing class 3 so now ways going above 4500 rpm.

[GTO-relic]

This begs the question, whats the difference between SD421 4140 steel rods, and 58-62 370/389 1140 steel rods.

They are very close. There's some chromium, molybdenum, silicon added to the SD421 4140 rod. But they are within a whisker of each other.

SAE-AISI 1140 Steel vs. SAE-AISI 4140 Steel :: https://share.google/vGhyqtoh9sXnOeU4A

[GTO-relic]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Ahem, being a PMD snob, i aspire to SD-455 Rods.
Oh butt wait, the 421 build is looking to use CAST 68-79modern vs CAST 67-68, vs 58-62 Prod Forgings. So what
.

I ran cast rods since 1978 my first car 1966 389 2bbl, then 350-400-455 engines in GTO, Firebird, Grand Prix with cast rods, never threw one. That included missing a gear with 400, bouncing off 7200rpm on tach, breaking rocker arm, stud, bending pushrod. Never threw a rod in any motor including 140mph charge down I-81 in Firebird 400 with cast rods. But I don't over-rev intentionally. Graduated to forged rods when new SD455 rods were $680 at the CHEVY dealership in 1989, never looked back.

[GTO-relic]

Angeles/McCarthy SuperStock launched at 4500 rpm, went through traps at 7100 rpm,with 5.38 rear gears in a 12-bolt.

Pics- launch, through traps, rear gear ratio
With heat treated 58-62 rods

Show of hands, who's running 5.38 gears, turning 7100 rpm here ? I have 4.88 gears and hit 7100 ....once

They did it 100's, maybe 1000's of times

[Sirrotica]

I'm not any of the NASCAR greats aforementioned, but I won 13 races in 2 seasons with a 67 GTO dirt car, cast rods, no failures 1975-76. There were no budget racer choices but cast rods during that time frame.

I also went 3 seasons with a 428 in a 69 Grand Prix dirt car, cast rods, no failures. 1977-78-79. The engine is still together as it was pulled from the car in 1980.

If you were a budget racer in the 70s there were no affordable connecting rods other than cast rods. We polished the beams, resized them, and put good rod bolts in them. Would I do that today, not likely, but if I wanted to race back then, I used cast rods.

Contrary to popular belief they work, as long as you keep the RPM reasonable, prep the rods, and run at least .002 rod clearance. They're not made of porcelain and fragile like tableware.




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