Then and Now - Page 7 - PY Online Forums

Mr_GTO · #**121** 01-04-2005, 05:46 PM

Feel free to post a pic of that 70 GTO you claim to own.

What's the VIN on that again? Just want to make sure you weren't taken for a ride. Lots of fake cars out there and people taking people for their money everyday.

But that wouldn't happen to you right? You are the end all be all of Pontiac GTO knowledge correct?

red70goat · #**122** 01-04-2005, 06:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
Give it up.

You both know what I was talking about in reference to Pontiac loosely promoting the Jury as a poor mans Judge. I also specifically said it was a LeMans although you'd never admit it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"When did _PONTIAC_ promote this car?

>>> I said very, very loosely if you'll remember some of my previous posts. It was but a small blip on the Pontiac radar screen in 69/70.

"It was a single Canadian dealer who promoted a 350 cubic inch 2 bbl carbed Canadian LeMans with special striping."

>>> Uhhh, yeah. I believe that's what I've previously said. Review my original post on the subject

"And only you would try and compare that car to a Judge...

"

>>> And just when did I do that? If you have problem with it take it up with Pontiac for allowing a dealer to do that in the first place, not me.

Keep trying to get us to believe the Endura front end was an option on the '70 GTO... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>> I never tried to convince you or anybody else of that. You and Gomer ( aka Mr_GTO ) are too dense to understand the context in which it was presented in reference to the Jury.

Goat luver · #**123** 01-04-2005, 07:00 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Feel free to post a pic of that 70 GTO you claim to own.

Yeah, c'mon Mr "Whatza Moron" let's see your beloved Goat.

I asked for pics in a posting a few weeks ago......... still waiting!

red70goat · #**124** 01-04-2005, 07:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:

"What's the VIN on that again? "
>>> Bite me Mr_ WannaBe GTO! I'm not giving you or anybody else my VIN # over the internet! Jeez...

"Lots of fake cars out there and people taking people for their money everyday."
>>>> In 1974?

"You are the end all be all of Pontiac GTO knowledge correct? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>> Wrong and I never admitted to such and I challenge you to find where I did. In fact in a pevious post I admitted to not being enough of a Pontiac expert to do my own resto. But hey, at least I can tell the difference between a 67 Grand Prix and a 67 GTO. Here's a 1970 GTO in case you aren't sure what one looks like:

red70goat · #**125** 01-04-2005, 07:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Feel free to post a pic of that 70 GTO you claim to own.

Yeah, c'mon Mr "Whatza Moron" let's see your beloved Goat.

I asked for pics in a posting a few weeks ago......... still waiting!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, that's fair. I don't remember you asking for a pic, but I'll dust off the cover and give you a pic here shortly. It's nothing spectacular, bone stock and needs a good waxing and some armourall. Let me hit it with a buffer and some elbow grease and it'll be ready for a pic.

Goat luver · #**126** 01-04-2005, 07:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Feel free to post a pic of that 70 GTO you claim to own.

Yeah, c'mon Mr "Whatza Moron" let's see your beloved Goat.

I asked for pics in a posting a few weeks ago......... still waiting!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, that's fair. I don't remember you asking for a pic, but I'll dust off the cover and give you a pic here shortly. It's nothing spectacular, bone stock and needs a good waxing and some armourall. Let me hit it with a buffer and some elbow grease and it'll be ready for a pic.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Originally posted in the “Nothings Changed” thread December 08, 2004 10.24pm

Whatza Monaro wrote:
"Whatever. That was a year or so ago and I don't remember exactly what it was. It was something similar to red70goat. Who cares? Given that it was a year ago, and not recently used it may have been removed. As far as my public profile it does say what my 70 is. For your benefit it is a 70/400 ci / 3 spd manual...bone stock right down to the wheels. Who's fishing for an argument now troll? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, Mr Whatza Monaro, when do we get to see a picture of your old beater??

The Champ · #**127** 01-04-2005, 09:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
Give it up.

You both know what I was talking about in reference to Pontiac loosely promoting the Jury as a poor mans Judge. I also specifically said it was a LeMans although you'd never admit it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. "When did PONTIAC promote this car?

">>> I said very, very loosely if you'll remember some of my previous posts. It was but a small blip on the Pontiac radar screen in 69/70."

I've got your post right above.

You say Pontiac promoted this car. Why would Pontiac promote this one dealers sales of a 350 2bbl car with stripes? You are right in saying it was a small blip on the Pontiac radar screen, but that was only at Stampede Pontiac in Calgary, Alberta. It was virtually nonexistant in the rest of the world...

2. "It was a single Canadian dealer who promoted a 350 cubic inch 2 bbl carbed Canadian LeMans with special striping."

">>> Uhhh, yeah. I believe that's what I've previously said. Review my original post on the subject

"

Your original post on this subject was that the Endura bumper was an option in 1970. In an extremely lame attempt to dig out of the hole you dug for yourself you mentioned the Jury. I was the one that first brought the facts of what a Jury was. Your only claim to fame on this is that it had a chrome bumper.

3. "And only you would try and compare that car to a Judge...

"

">>> And just when did I do that? If you have problem with it take it up with Pontiac for allowing a dealer to do that in the first place, not me."

Can you read your own post above? You claimed Pontiac promoted it as a poor man's Judge. Show me where Pontiac did that.

Here is Stampede's ad for the Judge and the Jury. I can't read the fine print, but the large print doesn't say that the Jury is a poor man's Judge.

4. Keep trying to get us to believe the Endura front end was an option on the '70 GTO...

">>> I never tried to convince you or anybody else of that. You and Gomer ( aka Mr_GTO ) are too dense to understand the context in which it was presented in reference to the Jury."

Your so full of crap, it's running out your ears...

You never even mentioned the Jury until after we explained to you that there was no such thing as an Endura option on a 1970 GTO.

Your extremely lame attempt to prove that it was an option blew up in your face by claiming a LeMans with a chrome bumper was the "standard" front end for a GTO.

Well get it through your thick skull that a LeMans in 1970 was not a GTO, and that is why it didn't have an Endura bumper.

You were wrong then, you are wrong now, and you'll be wrong again when you try and deny it tomorrow.

Mr_GTO · #**128** 01-05-2005, 03:14 AM

Yea, because I can so find out any info on you from a VIN number.

And yes, I know what a 70 GTO looks like.

And my point was going 60mph down the road and seeing a car that "LOOKS" like a GTO coming the other way, that you really can't tell until it actually passes you. And as I pointed out before, it was a '66 GP and '66 GTO that look alike, not the '67's. I know you like to change what is said to suite your needs to argument, it's just you do it so pathetically.

red70goat · #**129** 01-05-2005, 09:23 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Yea, because I can so find out any info on you from a VIN number.

And yes, I know what a 70 GTO looks like.

And my point was going 60mph down the road and seeing a car that "LOOKS" like a GTO coming the other way, that you really can't tell until it actually passes you.(QUOTE]

I can and always have. Could you tell the difference between a 66/67 Lemans grill insert and a 66/67 Tempest grill insert...from a distance? I doubt it. Do you know what a real restoration is vs a rebuild? I doubt it.

red70goat · #**130** 01-05-2005, 09:44 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Champ:

Well get it through your thick skull that a LeMans in 1970 was not a GTO, and that is why it didn't have an Endura bumper.(QUOTE]

>>> Billy Bob: Go back and review my original post on the subject.( Again.Speaking of thick skulls!

) You will indeed see that I mentioned it was a LeMans....and that I did mention that is why it did not have an Endura Bumper. And yes, it was promoted as a Poor Mans Judge from a dealership in New York who brought some in from Canada. And that there are some self proclaimed experts that claim this was a GTO as I clearly indicated it was not: Thus the only true GTO in 1970 came with an Endura Bumper as I clearly indicated. Tell me something there Mr. Expert: Prior to this all too tired and worn out conversation had you ever heard of a Jury? I doubt it. BTW: I'm still waiting for you tell me why I supposedly don't anything about cars. I'm still waiting for you show me one instance where I was wrong on model, year, hp, etc. I'm still waiting for you to tell me why a resto regardless of condition of vehicle would not cost around 40k. Rebuild under 40k: easy. Restoration under 40k: highly unlikely. There is a difference. I'll explain it to you sometime. I'm still waiting for you to tell me if I don't know anything about cars why I continue to get a minimum of 200k on them and still running strong.

red70goat · #**131** 01-05-2005, 09:52 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Yea, because I can so find out any info on you from a VIN number.
(QUOTE]

Arguments aside, it is not wise to post a VIN # over the internet. My neighbor got his 69 RoadRunner stolen ( which he later got back ) from posting a VIN over the internet. They traced it to his address and stole it right out of his garage. While there they trashed his house and killed his dog. It's fortunate his wife and 2 small children weren't in the house at the time. If you're going to post a VIN over the internet then make sure the car is stored elsewhere other than what a VIN may show.

The Champ · #**132** 01-05-2005, 09:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> Billy Bob: Go back and review my original post on the subject.( Again.Speaking of thick skulls!

). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Mr. Thickest Skull on the Planet...

Here is your original post on the Endura bumper which was posted on 11/27/04:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I think '70 was the last good year for the GTO and only with the Endura Bumper option. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now please, go lay down by your dish. I'm tired of kicking your sorry dog arse...

As I have told you multiple times, you only brought up the Jury trying to defend your totally incorrect post.

I ain't your Billy Bob.

red70goat · #**133** 01-05-2005, 10:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> Billy Bob: Go back and review my original post on the subject.( Again.Speaking of thick skulls!

). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I have told you multiple times, you only brought up the Jury trying to defend your totally incorrect post.(QUOTE]

And once again Billy Bob you are wrong in reference to the Jury. Your skull is too thick to understand the context in which it was presented and you don't have the backbone to admit it. Now go dig up my post where I said the Jury was indeed a LeMans and not a GTO. If I'm wrong I'll admit it as I did with my oversight on the stacked headlights being unique to Pontiac years 65-67 or the Daytona 500 vs the 24hr Daytona. Perhaps you should do the same, but then again you never make erroneous assumptions, do you?

The Champ · #**134** 01-05-2005, 04:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
And once again Billy Bob you are wrong in reference to the Jury. Your skull is too thick to understand the context in which it was presented and you don't have the backbone to admit it. Now go dig up my post where I said the Jury was indeed a LeMans and not a GTO. If I'm wrong I'll admit it as I did with my oversight on the stacked headlights being unique to Pontiac years 65-67 or the Daytona 500 vs the 24hr Daytona. Perhaps you should do the same, but then again you never make erroneous assumptions, do you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One more time, R E A L S L O W...

You didn't bring up the Jury until AFTER you said the Endura front end was an OPTION on the 1970 GTO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I think '70 was the last good year for the GTO and only with the Endura Bumper option. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now where in that post do you make any reference at all to the Jury?

Was the Endura Bumper an option on the 1970 GTO?

Why don't you see if you can grow a spine so that you'll have a backbone. Maybe then you can garner the courage to finally admit your mistakes.

I have no need to dig up any posts on the Jury because they are not relevant to the topic at hand - the mythical Endura Option on the 1970 GTO.

The only reason you brought up the Jury was to try and deflect the error of your original post by bringing up 26 dealer prepped LeMans' in Calgary, Alberta with a 350 2bbl, a sticker job and a wing...

What that EVER had to do with the 1970 GTO is beyond me, other than a few folks like you might have confused them for a GTO because they had a spoiler.

Of course, those that know something about cars would have spotted the chrome bumper and realized they weren't...

And just for your information, when I am wrong (which isn't very often), I openly admit it.

Dragncar · #**135** 01-05-2005, 06:33 PM

OK boys and girls back to why the 04 gto should be hated by real Pontiac enthusiasts.It is an ugly car with a small block Chevy in it and no Pontiac heritage.Now you knobs The Champ,Mr-GTO and Rabon will try and hide with the intetectualy dishonest "show me a website",GM Powertrain might dissagree".(and NaOH you do not have anything to offer so you might want to let the adults do the talking)It is a weak and coward like argument.Anyone who has built engines can see with their own eyes the heritage of the LS1.Now who calls the LSI a Chevrolet,well none other than GENERAL MOTORS.In the 2004 General Motors Performance Parts Catalog it lists the following on page 103 under the heading on the top of the page Chevy "Gen 3" Design LS1 LS5 LQ4.Part number 12568722 2004 LS1 GTO production engine less ECM and wire harness.Now Chevy calls it a Chevy,GM calls it a Chevy but you tools do not.Go back,drink some more Cool-Aid try and wiggle out of this one.By the way the boss at the local dealership where I got this information said Pontiac realy $ucked up the new GTO.You get a lot of that from people in the know.Ford on the other hand did their new Mach One right,just look at it when compaired to the new GTO it is a joke.The Mach One looks like a Mach One and the new GTO is some kind of a abortion.What a joke.

NaOH · #**136** 01-05-2005, 06:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>(and NaOH you do not have anything to offer so you might want to let the adults do the talking) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you're putting yourself forward as an example of what 'adult conversation' is like? Odd, you seemed more like a garden-variety troll to me.
But, I guess I really should be grateful that you're taking the time to put me in my place -- after all, you're a 'real Pontiac enthusiast'.

I hope I can be as cool as you some day.

pont3 · #**137** 01-05-2005, 07:28 PM

Well, Dragncar, 14000 people disagree with you and think the new GTO is anything but a joke. You will probably never understand but the only problem with sales of the GTO is price. There are many who would love to own the GTO but simply cannot afford it. Yes, incentives in December contributed to additional sales but even then they were still beyond the reach of many potential buyers. Additionally, Christmas gifts for kids and family took priority over impulsive car purchases. Many buyers simply could not qualify for the $5500 bonus for using GMAC Financing. But your continued bashing of the car will not matter one iota to GM. The Mustang, admittedly, is a good looking car but still will not appeal to the majority of the car buying market. It appeals now because it is new and rarely seen. Once it becomes the norm it will be like any other car out there. It will never possess the mystique of owning a GTO. If you visit other forums you will find that this forum is where the new GTO is hated most. Even the mustang forum has people who prefer the GTO over the Mustang. If you wish to live in your dream world and refuse to acknowledge that no division, other than Cadillac, has exclusive engines, that is your right. No current Pontiac has an engine that is not shared across General Motors' product line. GM had hoped it would capture the interest of enthusiasts who grew up during the Musclecar era and although it didn't capture many, it captured some. The bottom line is that even if the styling were different and actually appealed to a different demographic, complaints would still be lodged because of price. Just ask any OWNER of an '04 GTO if he/she regrets their purchase.

The Champ · #**138** 01-05-2005, 09:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by dragncar:
Ford on the other hand did their new Mach One right,just look at it when compaired to the new GTO it is a joke.The Mach One looks like a Mach One and the new GTO is some kind of a abortion.What a joke. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it's almost as good as this one...

You do realize that half the years of Mach 1 production were with the amazing German built 2.8L V6 that generated an amazing 105 HP...

The new Mustang GT is an underpowered car that may or may not sell as well as some are prediciting here. For Ford's sake, they better hope it sell well, as I just read today that the Ford Ranger sales have dropped 25% over 2003.

Of course, sales of the Mustang GT and the Ford PU's and SUV that use the 4.6 and 5.4L motors are going to dip until Ford figures out what's wrong with the heads on these motors.

BTW, have you been able to fit that SBC crank into an LS1 yet?

Let us know how it runs...

rabon008 · #**139** 01-05-2005, 10:10 PM

To dragncar: Evidently you lack the basic ability to admit when you're wrong and then
you just resort to name calling. Your own criteria stated, once again, that "If any sbc crank will "lay down in the saddles" correctly it is a sbc." Since you knew that the SAE paper I quoted would very clearly show you that the crank dimensions (along with many other technical details) are entirely different from the sbc, you chose not to buy the paper and not to comment anymore about that point.

So, how's about this: Tell us exactly what criteria makes the LS1 a "small block chevy" engine. As an engineer, I would really like to hear your technical description of what items make the LS1 nothing more than a "small block chevy". I would also like to hear the exact technical criteria that made the original "Pontiac" engines so much more desireable and sought after and worthy of such worship. I am sure that all the engineers in Detroit are just waiting to hear how they should design the next V8 engine to bring back all the power, fuel economy, reliability and charisma of the great Pontiac engines. I am sure the engineers and designers of the LS1 will be completely humiliated. They will surely be ashamed when they hear how they absolutely missed such a golden opportunity to use the Pontiac motor as the design template when they began designing the LS1. Hell, they probably should have just saved GM a ton of money and scrapped the entire LS1 design program in favor of bringing back the so obviously superior, in every way, Pontiac V8.

Enlighten us, oh great captain of engine design. Oh, I'm sorry, I guess now I've called you a name. At least its not "tool".

Dragncar · #**140** 01-06-2005, 05:56 PM

Hi guys,now only a few more long winded rants left.I just have to get it out of my system.You guys sure are hanging on to that crank lay down stuff.Honestly I asked the question beacause I knew very little about the LS1,only that it was Chevys new small block.It was not my criteria,just something I needed to know.It will not "lay down",fine.Changes nothing.(by the way I have asked now 3 times,if the sbc was never invented would the LS1 be around)Nobody has ever challenged that.Nobody can.It makes the LS1 Chevys new small block.Sorry it is a fact.GM does not even make anymore sbc,s it turns out,only crate motors.Only Gen 3s in new cars and trucks.You guys asked for facts.It took a while but found out a few and nobody wants to admit I an right as far as the LS1 being Chevys new small block.It is right in front of your face.Gave you the publication,the page,part number and everything.I said at the start some people just do not get it.And mrs-gto,why..............did you post a pic of a Mustang 2 that is all you have.Why are you taking about that car.The point was Ford Made the car look retro,kind of like a 69 mach One,pretty good jod on there part.And if it has one of those 280 somthing cube blown twin overhead cam hemis in it power will not be an problem.Nowdays GM is missing the boat as far as performance stuff,Mopar and Ford are walking all over tham.And I am a GM guy.Too many bean counters involved on GMs part.