Then and Now - Page 10 - PY Online Forums

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**181** 01-18-2005, 01:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
I guess that means those 4 bangers will outrun the old GTO's, too!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

a stock one yes.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**182** 01-18-2005, 02:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
ill ask this again what makes the 04 "look" (this means things you can see) diffrent from other new cars on the road today? like i said my 69 might look simmilar to A-bodies but the 04 looks like EVERY other car on the road both import and domestic. im glad you know what my system sounds like in my 69. but the 04's system isnt great. not even close. how can you accuratley compare times from a old GTO and a new one? put a "new" set of tires on a old GTO or a "old" set on the new GTO and then compare. youre right i cant name a V8 RWD under $35,000 +/- that will beat a 04 GTO in the 1/4. but i can name some 4/6 bangers that can. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The '04 looks like a lot of other cars on the road. So what? So did the '64.

more like ALL of the other cars on the road. i dont recall comapring the 64 to the 04.

The sound system on the '04 is decent enough for me to not change it (other than the HU)

ok
How many '69's have their original, front and rear speaker AM/FM sound system in them?

mine dont

Tire technology improved with the rest of the car.

yes it did thats why you cant accuratley compare 2 cars from diffrent times. run em on the same tires. id like to see a new GTO run 13.whatever on the tired the origional GTOs ran higher 13's with. it wouldnt happen

Name a new RWD 4 or 6 banger in the same price range, that can beat the GTO in the 1/4, that has as nice an interior, handles as well and isn't a s**t box..... I'll answer for you again..... There aren't any....

how many RWD 4 or 6 bangers are made now? either AWD or wrong wheel drive. once again you gotta compare whats out there and not what doesnt exist. asking for a 4/6 banger that isnt a s*** box is asking a lot.i can name a few AWD or wrong wheel drive cars that can beat the 04 in the 1/4 and a few more that can hang with it that cost less.

What was it you asked again?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what makes the 04 a pontiac? the body? nope try again. thats australlian. the engine? wrong answer. thats a chevy. what DOES make it a pontiac? thats what id like to know. childish answers like because pontiac says so dont cut it.

why drive something that the front end looks more like a VW bug then a muscle car? or that looks like a cavalier,GTP,neon,any other car on the road.how many other muscle cars on the road in 69 had hideaway headlights? how many had the hood scoops? how many had a simmilar front bumper/grill? how many had the rear marker lights like my 69? mopar?chevy?ford?who? now the only thing youre buying is a badge.

Mr_GTO · #**183** 01-18-2005, 03:33 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
what makes the 04 a pontiac? the body? nope try again. thats australlian. the engine? wrong answer. thats a chevy. what DOES make it a pontiac? thats what id like to know. childish answers like because pontiac says so dont cut it.

why drive something that the front end looks more like a VW bug then a muscle car? or that looks like a cavalier,GTP,neon,any other car on the road.how many other muscle cars on the road in 69 had hideaway headlights? how many had the hood scoops? how many had a simmilar front bumper/grill? how many had the rear marker lights like my 69? mopar?chevy?ford?who? now the only thing youre buying is a badge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, kid, the engine isn't a Chevy. Do you have ADD or something like that? Christ. The body is PONTIAC since Holden, for 2004, used a slightly different design. And if you didn't know that then you are not educated enough on the car. Uh, last time I checked, Pontiac was still a division of GM is it not?

The front of the GTO looks like a bug? Ahhh, I see your problem, you're blind. Funny, almost like revisioninst history. I used to drive my 66 GTO to high school and on more than one occasion was told "Nice Chevelle" and basically the cars back then all looked the same, square. And yes, many had hood scoops and some had hide away headlights, remember they were an OPTION on the GTO.

Tripower455 · #**184** 01-18-2005, 08:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> why drive something that the front end looks more like a VW bug then a muscle car? or that looks like a cavalier,GTP,neon,any other car on the road. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again.........

The new GTO is a RWD, V-8, manual transmission comfortable car with room for 4 adults. Oh, and it also handles and accelerates well..... There is not one other car available today that meets this criteria, which, BTW, describes an old GTO as well (except for the handling part

), unless you spend quite a bit more money.

My Formula looked "good" by most accounts. It was not half the car the new GTO is. Should I sell the GTO and buy another 'bird because it looks better? Why drive a car that looks good, but doesn't have all of the other, more important features.

What do you drive as a daily driver? If you tell me it's your '69, then I will understand your myopic view on the subject, since you obviously don't go very far on a daily basis, and looks win over practicality and reliability.

projectfolly · #**185** 01-18-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote: how many other muscle cars on the road in 69 had hideaway headlights? now the only thing youre buying is a badge.[/QUOTE]

Off the top of my head,I can think of a few other cars built in in the late 60's that had hideaway headlights:

Chevrolet RS Camaro
Chevrolet Caprice
Cadillac Eldorado
Buick Rivera
Olds Toronado
Corvette
Ford Galaxy/LTDs
Ford Thunderbird
Ford Torino
Lincoln Continental
Mercury Cougar
Full Size Mercurys
Dodge Charger
Plymouth Superbird

There may be others I'm missing.

RandyW · #**186** 01-18-2005, 11:19 AM

Don't go using common sense to prove your point, you'll just confuse 'em!

projectfolly · #**187** 01-18-2005, 12:30 PM

Thats a good point Randy, its a bad habit of mine to state the obvious !

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**188** 01-18-2005, 11:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by projectfolly:
Quote: how many other muscle cars on the road in 69 had hideaway headlights? now the only thing youre buying is a badge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Off the top of my head,I can think of a few other cars built in in the late 60's that had hideaway headlights:

Chevrolet RS Camaro
Chevrolet Caprice
Cadillac Eldorado
Buick Rivera
Olds Toronado
Corvette
Ford Galaxy/LTDs
Ford Thunderbird
Ford Torino
Lincoln Continental
Mercury Cougar
Full Size Mercurys
Dodge Charger
Plymouth Superbird

There may be others I'm missing.[/QUOTE]

yes thats the hideaway headlights. now how many of those had a front bumper/2 grilles that looked simmilar? how many of those cars still had hood scoops that looked simmilar? and how many of those had rear marker lights that look like simmilar? you can read cant you? yeah go ahead and twist my words to try to make me look stupid and see what you get.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**189** 01-18-2005, 11:44 PM

so GM didnt base this motor off the small block 350 and improve it? they made some brand new engine overnight that wasnt based off anythign that they successfully have done for several decades? you take somethign that works well and improve on it to make it better and make what isnt so good about it great. this is GM were talking about here. theyre not gonna spend that much money on something that wont work. well until the 04 GTO. 05 is getting better. but its not there yet.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**190** 01-18-2005, 11:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> why drive something that the front end looks more like a VW bug then a muscle car? or that looks like a cavalier,GTP,neon,any other car on the road. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again.........

The new GTO is a RWD, V-8, manual transmission comfortable car with room for 4 adults. Oh, and it also handles and accelerates well..... There is not one other car available today that meets this criteria, which, BTW, describes an old GTO as well (except for the handling part

), unless you spend quite a bit more money.

My Formula looked "good" by most accounts. It was not half the car the new GTO is. Should I sell the GTO and buy another 'bird because it looks better? Why drive a car that looks good, but doesn't have all of the other, more important features.

What do you drive as a daily driver? If you tell me it's your '69, then I will understand your myopic view on the subject, since you obviously don't go very far on a daily basis, and looks win over practicality and reliability. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes my 69 is my daily driver. man you must know everythign about me. first you know that your sound system in your 04 sounds better then my 69. now you know how far i drive everyday. what next? no looks arent the most important. its the performance that is. you guys are making this car sound like its the best looking fastest,best handling car made. to prove a point i told you guys about 4/6 banger imports that will beat it or at least hang right with the new GTO for the same price if not cheaper. then you come back with excuses like oh its AWD it can handle better. you think? maybe thats why it is AWD. or it has boost. yeah and it needs a lot of it. or you wouldnt drive it. i would considering it does everything (1/4,handle,accelerate better then the gto) since thats what its all about.if you guys want to compare cars for what they can do (1/4 mile times,skidpad,0-60) and find another car that will do what the new GTO can do or do it better dont get pissed. i would too if i spent $35,000 on a badge. what are you gonna do if some kid pulls up to you at a stoplight and wants to run em? say no all i race is RWD imports in the same price range. now who was talking about common sense? and stating the obvios?

red70goat · #**191** 01-19-2005, 12:57 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ??? QUOTE]

"The '04 looks like a lot of other cars on the road. So what? So did the '64. "

"more like ALL of the other cars on the road. i dont recall comapring the 64 to the 04."

I don't know who quoted what up there but the old argument that the 64 as an introductory GT0 ( then as an option on the Tempest ) looked like a lot of other cars as a valid argument to the 2004 as a introductory GTO 40 yrs later looking like a lot of other cars is totally irrelevant and not comparable at all. In 1964 US cars looked distinctly different from their Eastern Pacific Rim competitors, if you could even call them competitors at that time...and there weren't that many of them! Unlike today where there are both foreign and domestic manufacturers competing on the same soil and in greater numbers sharing the same industrial fleet design.

Mr_GTO · #**192** 01-19-2005, 03:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
so GM didnt base this motor off the small block 350 and improve it? they made some brand new engine overnight that wasnt based off anythign that they successfully have done for several decades? you take somethign that works well and improve on it to make it better and make what isnt so good about it great. this is GM were talking about here. theyre not gonna spend that much money on something that wont work. well until the 04 GTO. 05 is getting better. but its not there yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they didn't. It was a clean sheet of paper design. NOT ONE SINGLE PART interchanges between the two. You are EXTREMELY IGNORANT in your knowledge of what GM is doing today and your posts prove it. You don't even have a clue do you?

RandyW · #**193** 01-19-2005, 06:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> yeah go ahead and twist my words to try to make me look stupid and see what you get.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good results, so far!!!

RandyW · #**194** 01-19-2005, 06:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ??? QUOTE]

"The '04 looks like a lot of other cars on the road. So what? So did the '64. "

"more like ALL of the other cars on the road. i dont recall comapring the 64 to the 04."

I don't know who quoted what up there but the old argument that the 64 as an introductory GT0 ( then as an option on the Tempest ) looked like a lot of other cars as a valid argument to the 2004 as a introductory GTO 40 yrs later looking like a lot of other cars is totally irrelevant and not comparable at all. In 1964 US cars looked distinctly different from their Eastern Pacific Rim competitors, if you could even call them competitors at that time...and there weren't that many of them! Unlike today where there are both foreign and domestic manufacturers competing on the same soil and in greater numbers sharing the same industrial fleet design. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Camry, Altima, Escort and Malibu have some vague similarity, the GTO, and by the way, that is a very early pre-production pic that looks very different than the real car, looks way different than the others. If you are having trouble picking it out of that crowd, you're way overdue for new glasses!!!

red70goat · #**195** 01-19-2005, 09:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ??? QUOTE]

"The '04 looks like a lot of other cars on the road. So what? So did the '64. "

"more like ALL of the other cars on the road. i dont recall comapring the 64 to the 04."

I don't know who quoted what up there but the old argument that the 64 as an introductory GT0 ( then as an option on the Tempest ) looked like a lot of other cars as a valid argument to the 2004 as a introductory GTO 40 yrs later looking like a lot of other cars is totally irrelevant and not comparable at all. In 1964 US cars looked distinctly different from their Eastern Pacific Rim competitors, if you could even call them competitors at that time...and there weren't that many of them! Unlike today where there are both foreign and domestic manufacturers competing on the same soil and in greater numbers sharing the same industrial fleet design. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

by the way, that is a very early pre-production pic that looks very different than the real car,(QUOTE]

Yes, the rendering was much better than what GM eventually coughed up. Notice the lack of spoiler but rather ducktail, longer hood covering wipers, and colored calipers. Somewhere along the line Beavis and LutzHead Inc. got their grubby little hands on it and botched it up. The real car looks even more similar to those pictured. It wouldn't take much to get it back to the sleek, contemporary rendering that was origianlly proposed. Hell, look at the improvement just removing the spoiler makes.

The Who · #**196** 01-19-2005, 10:48 AM

I don't know what you're smoking, but the GTO might not stand out a lot, but it sure as hell doesnt look like all those other cars, not even close to it. Just the headlights and split grill is dinstinctive from the others.

red70goat · #**197** 01-19-2005, 11:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheWho:
Just the headlights and split grill is dinstinctive from the others. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps, but certainly not distinctive as a GTO. Mitsubishi and many others are now sporting a similar split grill.

Lynn Meyers Pontiac /GMC General Manager July 2002 M/T : " I'm not concerned about the styling of the new GTO. It has the powertrain to make it a modern day musclecar. This will fulfill the image of the GTO."

Tripower455 · #**198** 01-19-2005, 11:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>yes my 69 is my daily driver. man you must know everythign about me. first you know that your sound system in your 04 sounds better then my 69. now you know how far i drive everyday. what next? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's easy to deduce from your posts. Your view on the subject is even more closed minded than Whatza70goat's (

), which is saying something. I know for a fact that the new GTO has a better stock sound system than a '69, because I have heard both. It is also as good or better than most current stock systems. I also know that if you drive a '69 GTO as a driver that you aren't driving it very far, or leaving it unattended very long, unless you're an idiot. A 69 is not an easy car to replace. If the 2004 is stolen, I call my insurance co, and order an '05.

FWIW, I drive my '04 185 miles, each way, to work every week, and leave it unattended in an airport parking lot for 3-4 days at a time. Anybody that would use an old GTO for that purpose needs a serious head exam. The new one is perfect for the purpose. It's fun to drive, get's good economy, is comfortable, quiet, passes with aplomb and is pretty stealthy, especially compared to my old Formula, which was a cop/ricer/rustang magnet.......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> no looks arent the most important. its the performance that is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is precisely why I bought a new GTO, in spite of it's looks. It performs better, in just about every way, than an old one (remember, I have had both), not to mention most other new cars on the road.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>you guys are making this car sound like its the best looking fastest,best handling car made. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, we are simply giving credit, where credit's due. It is, overall, a GREAT car, well worthy of the GTO nameplate it wears. I can say that after actually owning and driving it. It would be nice if it were more retro styled, like the new Mustang (which is a great looking car. I still wouldn't buy one since I am not comfortable in them for more than 5 minutes)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> to prove a point i told you guys about 4/6 banger imports that will beat it or at least hang right with the new GTO for the same price if not cheaper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I am still waiting for you to name one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> then you come back with excuses like oh its AWD it can handle better. you think? maybe thats why it is AWD. or it has boost. yeah and it needs a lot of it. or you wouldnt drive it. i would considering it does everything (1/4,handle,accelerate better then the gto) since thats what its all about.if you guys want to compare cars for what they can do (1/4 mile times,skidpad,0-60) and find another car that will do what the new GTO can do or do it better dont get pissed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Name one car that will outperform the new GTO, that is in the same class (both $$$ and performance wise). There aren't any. I am not pissed, I am VERY happy with my new GTO. Driving a FWD (or AWD for that matter), 4 banger sh!tbox, no matter how well it "performs", is not exciting to me in the least. At least until you start hydroplaning, the FWD becomes REAL exciting, but not in a good way........

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>i would too if i spent $35,000 on a badge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spent considerably less than that on my '04, and considerably more on my '66.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> what are you gonna do if some kid pulls up to you at a stoplight and wants to run em? say no all i race is RWD imports in the same price range. now who was talking about common sense? and stating the obvios?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, I'll say no because I have way too muc common sense and self esteem to street race. I also have WAAAAY too much to lose and nothing whatsoever to gain. I am a 40 y.o. professional, with a house, wife and kids. What incentive is there for me to beat a 17 y.o. in a Civic? In the risk/reward equation, there is very little reward.

Second of all, there are very few 13 second anythings running around on the street, regardless of what you think, so there is little point in it.

I know that it will beat most cars on the road (even if it looks like them), and that some will beat it. So what? None have the whole package that the GTO has (unless you get into the higher end, MUCH more expensive Beamers/AMG Benzs).

I've got news for you, there are a lot of cars running around that will spank your '69. Bad. No matter how fast your car is, there is always something faster. Judging from your other posts on the subject, I'd be surprised if yours breaks 14s the way it sits now. Should you sell it and buy something else? Should you not like it because of this fact? Should I criticize your car because BOTH of my GTOs will probably spank yours? My answer is no. A '69 Judge (even a clone) is a VERY cool car, (it's my 2nd favorite GTO, in fact.....66 is the first). It just serves a different purpose than a new one. FWIW, it seems that you are a younger guy, and if so, I applaud your choice of a '69 Goat, rather than a newer car. I had a '77 GP in HS and early college, as well as a '66 GTO, '69 GP and a few others, so I can relate.

If I could only afford 1 GTO right now, I would choose the 2004, because I need a reliable car for my commute. Fortunately, I don't have to choose, so I have a nice daily driver AND a really cool weekend cruiser.

Tripower455 · #**199** 01-19-2005, 11:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Lynn Meyers Pontiac /GMC General Manager July 2002 M/T : " I'm not concerned about the styling of the new GTO. It has the powertrain to make it a modern day musclecar. This will fulfill the image of the GTO."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a very true statement........ I agree wholeheartedly.

:edit:

Since this is my 455th post....... here is a pic of my 455 to commemorate the event!

red70goat · #**200** 01-19-2005, 12:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Lynn Meyers Pontiac /GMC General Manager July 2002 M/T : " I'm not concerned about the styling of the new GTO. It has the powertrain to make it a modern day musclecar. This will fulfill the image of the GTO."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a very true statement........ I agree wholeheartedly.

:edit:

Since this is my 455th post....... here is a pic of my 455 to commemorate the event!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

cool!