[mrennie]

I need to replace the lower section of my passenger quarter due to pitting and rot.

Since no one sells actual patch panels, I'm looking at buying a skin to cut the repair panel out of.

Can anyone tell me if the skins (not the new full quarter) have the tabs and edges I've circled in this picture?

Thanks!

[Matt Meaney]

my goodmark's didn't. (3-4 years ago) they also didn't have the lower body line either.

[mrennie]

Hi Matt,

What do you mean about the lower body line? Do you mean they are missing the flange that sits against the trunk filler panel where the two are spot welded together? Or do you mean they are shaped differently than the original quarter?

Thanks

Michael

[Matt Meaney]

it's shaped different. it doesn't carry the lower body line from the doors and front of the quarter. it's just smooth.

[mrennie]

10-4

Thanks

[gto406]

Looking at my skins, they don't have that small section you circled in your pics.

I had thought (prior to checking the repop skins) that the body-line was only from behind the rear wheel opening (back toward the rear bumper). However, looking at some pic's of the full repop 1/4 (not the skin) for comparison, it seems the quarter does have more sculpture at the lower edge (at the door-jamb).

Someone on the board mentioned (previously) about reproducing that line (in the rearward section) - i.e. on the repop-skin. I wondered how they went about doing that? My thought was to try and take some dimensions off the original - to be replaced panel (i.e. width X height, transition angle from top to bottom, tc.) - and try to transfer this onto the repop-skin. I am not sure the lower body can be reproduced at the front edge (near the door jamb).

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
Brian.

[mikes2nd]

skins are pretty worthless.

the latest ones i got I returned and had to crease with a hammer and sandbag to match the bodyline.

The bottom edge is not stock, you can use it but its just rounded junk. The wheel edge is not factory either. It shouldnt be a problem if you using the trim, but you can see its just flat folded in, no ridge. I am actually going to go back and pull my skin off since its 1.5 inches in to far and just a rounded off crap. More work since I used the skins.

My car wont have the wheel well trim so I have to do this or bondo the hell out of it to make it look reasonable, since it didnt fit on the bottom and any one with eyes can see the bottom is not stock and is crap, I went out and got a new quarter, going to use the bottom of it(stock quarter)... sucks but I don't want to half arse this car.

Goodmark skins suck, not to mention the filler you will have to use to get the warpage out... Full quarter is the only way to go because their dies are still good.

Attached is my goodmark full quarter... pretty nice, only issue was the back tail section. Didn't stamp out perfect, otherwise ive been able to put it on no issues.

outer wheel housing sucked though... wow the hacking on that.

since you only need to bottoms, i would start hunting for a parts car.

[sts]

Hammer out a patch from cold-rolled flat stock.

<Someone on the board mentioned (previously) about reproducing that line. . . I wondered how they went about doing that?>

They used a tool called a hammer. A claw hammer would be fine if it's all you have. I was willing to share some metal fabrication techniques, and attempted to do so a few years ago, but nobody seemed to give a phuck, so wtf should I?

[gto406]

Originally Posted by sts

Hammer out a patch from cold-rolled flat stock.

<Someone on the board mentioned (previously) about reproducing that line. . . I wondered how they went about doing that?>

They used a tool called a hammer. A claw hammer would be fine if it's all you have. I was willing to share some metal fabrication techniques, and attempted to do so a few years ago, but nobody seemed to give a phuck, so wtf should I?

Ouch, I guess I asked a dumb question, my apologies! Please note, I do have some body-hammers, and dollies - I even have a small brake (mounted to my bench) and a shrinker/stretcher. I also have a nice big 4' X 8' sheet of 18ga cold rolled sheet metal.

I would be very interested in hearing or learning ANY/ALL shaping/fab techniques (I do, very sincerely). If you have the time or inclination, I would be pleased (and honored) to receive any guidance you may have! I try and practice where/when I can (and have read Ron Fournier's book cover-to-cover) but no replacement, for real 'hands on' expertise.

I checked back (with PaulAtFast/Paintguy) who (when I undertook this project - gulp more than 2 years ago) provided me with some great advice http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...3&postcount=16 on the quarter (skin) replacement. That is only to replace what I absolutely needed to replace. I do know the outer wheelhouse (on the passenger side) has damage on the edge which connects into the quarter - around the wheel opening. It also has damage (in the lower wheel opening) closest to the passenger side door. Therefore, I figure I need to 'cut somewhere' above the body line to graft in a patch (or a skin). Note I did purchase repop skins and outer wheel-houses to go on the car.

I worked on a procedure (see my other post in the GTO Body thread http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=682777) for replacing the quarter. I realize the full-1/4 is optimal, however I have the skins now, so just trying to get the car back together, looking decent (doesn't have to be 100%).

Thanks in advance,
Brian
'72 GTO, '69 Bird.

[mikes2nd]

I am the guy that took a hammer and chisel to my goodmark skins since the sharp crease down the body was rounded off so badly on the skin. It went okay but obviously there were marks that required filler.

BUT, I only used the last foot and a half of the skin. I used the lower skin as a patch.

I now have to redo the bottom completely, you can tell its "pushed" in at the bottom. My father rushed it and welded it in, and the lower quarter panel is in 1.5 inches to far, the skins simply dont have enough metal down there.

It looks horrible and definately no where near stock, we are cutting it off and going with a stock lower quarter panel patch, that way it matches and looks right. If you have old goodmark skins you might be okay? both sides of mine were bad, passenger was worse than drivers though.

I returned the passenger side.

I saw this guys patches.. but I am not sure who makes them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-GTO-...sories&vxp=mtr

[70 Rick]

Hey Mikes2nd,
Don't mean to hijack mrennies thread, but could you describe in detail what issues you had with the tail section of the full quarter? I have one sitting here, and I am trying to decide whether to cut patches from it or do a full replacement.

[PaulatFast]

We have used the skins successfully on numerous projects. It takes a little time, but... as I always say... IT'S ONLY METAL! Add a little piece here, bend it there, cut and splice it here and there. Just take your time and don't rush.

[mikes2nd]

Originally Posted by 70 Rick

Hey Mikes2nd,
Don't mean to hijack mrennies thread, but could you describe in detail what issues you had with the tail section of the full quarter? I have one sitting here, and I am trying to decide whether to cut patches from it or do a full replacement.

it wasnt a huge issue, but the stamping put some large rippling around the back flat panel(the one that flushes with the trunk(below the bend).

It was bent in also(I think from shipping damage) and I will have to use body filler to get the rippling right. Not a huge deal. I was able to bend it back and it seemed to line up pretty well with the trunk lid.

It just depends how much damage is on your quarter? How much time will it take to repair that damage? The body lines on the 70-72 are insane... The humps and ridges and waves... I've seen so many horrible bondo jobs on these cars.

Im a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to body work, but why do it half arsed?

[gto406]

Thanks to PaulatFast and mikes2nd for feedback, and of course mrennie for hi-jacking his thread. I truly hope this side-bar has helped answer his questions and helped him sort his issues with the rear 1/4 panels.

I will be documenting my 72 GTO quarter-skin graft (sounds like cosmetic surgery!) in my project thread. Hopefully, this may be helpful for other folks trying to undertake this process. I know 'breaking it down' into manageable steps always helps me (it is easier to take small steps than trying to work in one big jump-step).

Happy Holidays (i.e. Merry Xmas) to all.
BR/Brian
'72 GTO & '69 Firebird.

[mikes2nd]

here you can see just how bad the body crease is on the skins, i got those skins over a year ago.

look at the "body line" crease... its was so rounded off compared.

[PaulatFast]

Originally Posted by mikes2nd

I saw this guys patches.. but I am not sure who makes them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-GTO-...sories&vxp=mtr

Those are pretty rough pieces. Made by Classic Reproductions in Greenville OH. Just like the skins, they can be used successfully in the right situation. one of the biggest pains is the complete lack of a rear edge. If you have a rust issue that is only directly behind the wheel opening, this might be a good solution.

The skins are totaly usable. A little blocking goes along way, actually alot of blocking in this case!

[mikes2nd]

the amount of work on those skins is insane...

and the edge line is rounded. so i don't know how you block the sheet metal down.

get a full quarter instead of skins

[PaulatFast]

How? before the skin is installed you work the edge, top and bottom, with a hammer and a dolly bringing more definition to the crease. Then you block the entire panel after a light skim coat with polyester finishing filler and block it down. After you are satisfied with your lines you spray three coats of a good quality 2k primer. Not high build sprayable crap. Just a quality primer. Block that down and reprime. That's how. I think we've skinned a dozen or so 70's and they all came out great.

As I always say... it's only metal!

Ever compare a very early built 70 against a late build? Or even a Pontiac car against a Baltimore car. They were not all razor crisp from the factory. Check out an NOS quarter next time you see one, most of them are from the late eighties, there is NO line to speak of on some of them. We have over a dozen 70's at the shop... each seems to have it's own lines. This is true as well of the top edge of the eyebrow bulge, some have a definate crease that the naked eye can pick out, others have a flowing rounded transition.

BTW, You will not find a more anal person when it comes to original body lines on these cars!

[mrennie]

Ok guys, help me out here...I'm getting confused!

Matt's post #2 and #4 stated the skins he got from Goodmark did not have the lower body line behind the wheel opening. I have seen numerous photos of skins on the net like the first one I attached and they seem to be missing it as he mentioned.

However, I see other pics that appear to be the same skin like the second pic I attached and it does seem to have the lower body line. Also, the pic Mikes2nd attached (post #15) appears to have the lower body line Matt didn't have on his skins from several years ago.

Am I seeing things or what? Maybe there are 2 stampings for skins? (Seems doubtful 2 companies would tool up for the same part???)

If I could be assured a skin would come with the lower body line that would work for me as I do not need the sharp main body line above the wheel opening.

Let's beat this dead horse a bit more!!

Thanks

Michael

[mikes2nd]

Okay the skin does come with a "form" of that lower area. It might be okay if you don't care about having anything near factory. You will have to "work" the trunk drops and can use it if you want. It is "minimal" down there. I can instantly spot it now and someone who knows these cars will assume your car is hacked. You will have to bend the "crease" down there(where it lays flat with the trunk drop). and spend more time massaging it.

My father got in a rush and welded the skin in... we are having to redo it with a oem i got.
You could take the skin and "recreate" the bottom of the quarter to match the factory closer.

This is like the guy working the body line on the fricking quarter... I don't have the patience or want to waste the money to pay a body guy 1500$ to fix a body line ... I can only imagine the cost. I would just spend the extra 200$.

If its just the bottom it sounds like you might be better off just building your own pieces and weld them in.

Take a picture and maybe we can help you better on your decision.