[The Boss]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

Subscribing - Picked up a Lucy 71' 455 HO M22 TA yesterday.

Now you just need a white 72 to round out the set!

Congratulations - but where are the pics?

[RAJ7395]

I'll take and post some pictures in the near future. The car is heavily rusted and is missing the original engine. Please be on the look out for a 455 HO with a partial VIN ending in 112769. The original M22 is present.

Boss- Mr. San Marco's 72 Lucy blue auto TA was born on my birthday so that would be the one I'd like to have.

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

I have one little question......door panels....71? not like my TA

Those are the Camaro hard plastic 70-71 lower door panels. While I haven't seen any documentation on it, it seems that as the padded Firebird lowers ran out, they started using the Camaro lowers on the Firebirds since they were likely already planning the change for '72. This car being an 05B build likely came with them.

[Transamric]

[QUOTE=njsteve;4962558]You've got to be kidding, right? Looks just like mine and every other one I have seen, once the caulking is cleaned up.QUOTE]

Ok, the rebody comment was a bit tongue in cheek, (it's nice to know somebody is paying attention!) but I've never seen factory installed rivets that rough. Especially when you notice how bent up the tag is around each rivet. Especially the right one. It has all the appearances of having been (quickly, rather than carefully) removed,...most likely to do a thorough cleaning/painting underneath, and the rivets were replaced with the available aftermarket copies.

Having said all this, I'd like to see some pics of Norwood installed tag rivets (and tags) that look as rough as this Red Formula's does. I only have three Norwood Firebirds at present & none look this way. But as I said, I'd like to see pictures that say different. Fair enough?

BTW, here's the Red Formulas tag from the auction.

[2manyT/A'S]

Slightly off topic.......looked at a 70 Formula 400...cowl tag has an A stamped past the W66 stamp which designates vinyl top color (black) ....but NO sign of the top on the car OR invoice...

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

Those are the Camaro hard plastic 70-71 lower door panels. While I haven't seen any documentation on it, it seems that as the padded Firebird lowers ran out, they started using the Camaro lowers on the Firebirds since they were likely already planning the change for '72. This car being an 05B build likely came with them.

I have a mid April Norwood build 71 T/A with the Camero lowers....standard trim.
We've kicked this around before & it appears that they saved the soft lowers for Custom Trim interiors...

I don't recall seeing an original 71 Custom Trim interior with the hard ones... which have been in reprodution for about 5 years now...

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

Slightly off topic.......looked at a 70 Formula 400...cowl tag has an A stamped past the W66 stamp which designates vinyl top color (black) ....but NO sign of the top on the car OR invoice...

Mistakes on tags did happen.

[formula400]

Ya know, being a shop owner and always wanting to be professional I hold back on comments or stay away from them, but not this time...

I will make this short...

Transamric,

GO F*** yourself

[njsteve]

Take a look at the right side rivet on my tag. Looks just the same as the red car's rivet.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=695444

[165th]

Yeah, I agree with Steve on this. Trim tags have a pretty exposed life since that portion of the firewall was used to store wrenches, beer, roach clips maybe? while under the hood.

I don't know of one car I've restored or had restored that the trim tag didn't come off so the firewall can be cleaned and prepared properly with the red oxide 'dipped' look on the body followed by the application of the trim tag and finally the black out over it all.

I actually appreciate the way the Formula trim tag appears. The red oxide shows under the tag just as it's supposed to. The assembly line blackout on the firewall was less than perfect and when red oxide shows under assembled parts or lack of blackout I really dig it.

One other nuance some may not know, but the color of the car is also often times on the trim tag. Overspray from spraying color on the bulkhead prior to installing the fenders would get on the top of the firewall and trim tag. In these two examples you can see the blue and silver along the leading edge of the trim tag.

Very sexy stuff if you can emulate that during restoration.

[165th]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

I'll take and post some pictures in the near future. The car is heavily rusted and is missing the original engine. Please be on the look out for a 455 HO with a partial VIN ending in 112769. The original M22 is present.

Boss- Mr. San Marco's 72 Lucy blue auto TA was born on my birthday so that would be the one I'd like to have.

Hi Rob, congratulations on picking up an early second gen TA. Definitely need pictures. Unfortunately I no longer own your birthday TA! It has gone to Red Goat here on these forums. I knew you'd want to know so you can keep up with it. When I began contemplating selling it, I did send you an email to let you know. I hope that email didn't get 'lost in the mail' and you missed it? Rob is not kidding, that TA was literally born the same week Rob was born!

[johnta1]

"looked at a 70 Formula 400...cowl tag has an A stamped past the W66 stamp which designates vinyl top color (black) ....but NO sign of the top on the car OR invoice... " If the letter is after the W66 it is not for the top color. That would be the 2nd letter in the 'PNT' line. I think the letter, A in this instance, is for a stripe color, white.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by formula400

Ya know, being a shop owner and always wanting to be professional I hold back on comments or stay away from them, but not this time...

I will make this short...

Transamric,

GO F*** yourself

[1971WARBIRD]

looking at 165th's trim tags, you can see 1 has sealer in the holes. is there any rhyme or reason for this, as the other doesn't? i know i have cars with and with out, just wondering.

[2manyT/A'S]

In my observation...and we've kicked this one around before......70 & 71 Van Nuys builds had the cowl tag rivets filled with seam sealer & Norwood builds were generally not....

However...it appears that it may have depended on WHO was installing them.

Also,where I live,it rains ALOT.....so anybody under the hood seeing a puddle over the tag may have picked the sealer out to drain the pond.......

(actual size/shape of tag was different on VN vs Norwood builds)

Also,not picking sides on this one........BUT,this 71 HO did get tossed into the "shark tank" and if I was the "restorer" of this this car.I'g be pretty happy that the cowl tag is the ONLY thing that drew LESS than positive attention/comment.

My opinion...It's a stunning car/restoration & the cowl tag is not up to calibre of the rest of the restoration....it's just a 40+ year old tag that has suffered a bit of trauma over the years...

[Lloyd-TX]

FWIW - Here are a couple of shots of the (undisturbed) cowl tag on my old '72 Formula 455 car.

Being a 1972 model, it was from Norwood assembly, of course.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX

FWIW - Here are a couple of shots of the (undisturbed) cowl tag on my old '72 Formula 455 car.

Being a 1972 model, it was from Norwood assembly, of course.

I seem to recall something on this way back........did we ever find out what the hand stamped #'s were by the right rivet?

[RicksGTO]

I emailed an old Norwood assembly plant and Fisher body plant worker with the tag from my '72 and cut and pasted his reply in the post towards the bottom of this page:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=626361

I had seen some other info online suggesting it was the body cradle number before and this matched up with what I had heard.

[RicksGTO]

some more interesting info on the Norwood and Van Nuys plant assembly processes from the former plant employee John Hinckley that I got the above reply from:
http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml#fisher

[RAJ7395]

Needs a bunch of TLC but it's got a lot of potential.