[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by Alvin

[size=3]This thread is another one of those funny as chit "Paul asking a 'your opinion' questions"... thanks – again – for the entertainment Paul! [/b]

Another post by Alvin that makes no sense to me.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

No person`s opinion is going to convince others to do one thing or another.

I wouldn`t pass up a great buy on a car because it had a different trans, that`s just silly.

The original intent of this thread was to get opinions, pros and cons, etc. It served that purpose. When i was looking for a muscle car toreplace mine, i didn`t want a rust bucket. Spent a lot of time fixing the previous one. This happened to have a manual and that was a plus.

I mentioned that starting issue because i`ve had to replace or crawl under a car to bang on a starter to get going, once a thousand miles from home, and i hate that helplessfeeling....it`s just me. Just one advantage of a manual over an auto.

By the same token, i`ve had to drive without a clutch due to broken linkage etc. To get the car home.

That`s a downside. It`s preference, that`s all.

BTW,i drive my Eldo daily, manually shifting.......that`s me.

George

It was and it has done this. Thanks everyone.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by tom s

REAL muscle cars have 3 pedals!PERIOD!Tom

Originally Posted by mike nixon

Yep, trucks too.

LOL!

Nothing like driving a Hurst shifted 4 speed to work and back every day to make you good at it...



Having said that, my Grand Prix is an auto. I share the perspective of being disappointed when I look in there and it's not a stick, but really it suits the character of this car better (aka "low & slow" cruiser) - and - there's the whole driving in traffic thing. It's murder trying to negotiate the Woodward Dream cruise with a stick - so - the GP becomes the Dream Cruiser of choice.

K

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by The Champ

The last time I had to push start a car, the battery had plenty of juice.

Problem was an intermittent no start problem I had been trying to solve for over a month.

At first, it would just take a few extra turns of the key. Thought maybe it was the starter that had been on the car for 17 years (that wasn't new to start with). Seeing as how I had a new RobbMC starter sitting at home waiting for my new 462 - I did the easy thing and replaced the starter.

Coming home from the Iola Old Car show (200 plus miles away) I threw a power steering belt halfway home. Had to stop to take the remnants of the belt off.

It was Sunday in a small town over 100 miles from home and now the car won't start. I can drive without power steering, but had to push start the car to get home.

After I got home, the car restarted with the ignition as normal...

Ended up checking the wiring from stem to stern.

Turned out to be a wiring problem right up by the firewall.



When you are 100 miles from home, what good do your wreckers do you?

Not busting your balls...

I prefer sticks. I feel more engaged with the car that way. You can buy/drive whatever you want.

In your case, a wrench, or a pair of pliers, pocket knife etc. across the starter solenoid terminals would have gotten me on my way, see how easy that was? No pushing, just open the hood and start the engine by jumping the starter. I'm on my way, and the tow truck is at my house 100 miles away.

About 10 years ago I had a very similar situation on my 76 T/A and it wouldn't start about 450 miles from home. It was a beater car and the wiring was not only original, a self styled electrician had been into almost every harness on the car. Wire nuts pieces of speaker wire spliced in etc. Took out my pocket knife and jumped across the wires with the blade and was on my way. 455 W/ T400 and I wasn't stranded for more than 5 minutes................................

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Alvin

This thread is another one of those funny as chit "Paul asking a 'your opinion' questions"... thanks – again – for the entertainment Paul!

4-spd & Auto: Personally I own, enjoy and drive both.

The answer really depends on what roads and conditions the vehicle in question will be used:

• Congested “Low Speed” Urban Driving or “High Speed” Open Road Rural or Highway driving.

Can tell you, nothing like blowing the doors off of a 4-spd thru the twisties or from a standing start with a Turbo 350 or 400 with, say, a 2:56 LSD gear...especially fun against an over geared MOPAR, etc. running 3:90s, 4:11s etc... Up in smoke while I'm down the road.

Have used a Turbo Trans to down shift with engine torque thru apex on the open back roads...beat same vintage L-82 4-spd Vettes, etc. for over 100,000 miles on an original Poncho. It can be loads of fun. Ask anyone who's learned how to use a factory consol mounted Dual Gate or T/A Automatic “Slap-shifter”.

So you asked about “vintage” cars…Here’s my take on one in our possession:

• ’73 Grand Am 400 Turbo 400 w 3:08 – Excellent “Grand Touring” drive, low speed stop and go or sustained 70mph highway speed no problem. Nothing like downshifting and winding this Poncho out in passing gear; docile “boat” comes alive, often surprising others like all “heck” has broke loose. Perfect for all around Texas driving.

Same w using our modern VW tiptronic auto in "manual" mode...I've left many a Beemer, etc. in the dust on the beltway by "dropping down a gear or two" and spooling up the Revs and Turbo...when the other vehicle did one of those speed up to keep us from passing on the open highway. Excellent RPM, Engine HP & Torque control…downside is an immediately noticeable decline in MPG. The Autos that I dislike are the 2-speeds for the street...but that’s my opinion. Lot’s swear by them.

It's always nice "rowing thru the gears" in a manual trans vehicle...and blipping the throttle...here’s my take on a few in our possession:

• '67 GTO 400 4-spd w 3:55 - 1st gear over way too soon, 4th gear looking for more/another gear, usally gets a thumbs up, 'back in the day' positive comments.
• ’78 T/A 6.6 4-spd w 3:42 – 1st through 4th gear all seem fine; around town, until @ Highway speed of 70mph, looking for more/another gear. Same trans with minor gear difference than below – big difference in open road manners. Great for drag strip ¼ mile and around town.
• ’79 T/A 6.6 4-spd w 3:23 - 1st through 4th gear all seem fine; around town, great to cruise @ 100 mph on Highway with A/C on ‘cruising” along. Ex: Return on I-45 south from Ennis DAPA meet to Houston driving with hi-speed traffic for over 100 mile distances.

IMO it takes talent to performance drive ANY vehicle period. That's how (pick your other favorite sanction body) competition began in the old days. Post that "man card" next to your "man cave" signs on your wall if it makes you feel better.

Automatic or 4 speed what’s your pleasure? Buy and drive whatever you want: And do it quick! Before they outlaw it! Peace Out.

Originally Posted by Old Blue 66

Another post by Alvin that makes no sense to me.

Did your '66 have a manual or a 2-spd? Also makes no sense to me why you'd ask for opinions again if
1. You already know what you want
2. Opinions asked for will be discounted due to predetermined agenda

No matter really. Reminds me of your recent "tire date code" Q then "Never Mind"...

Buy whatever what you want to. Enjoy the day.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

LOL!

Nothing like driving a Hurst shifted 4 speed to work and back every day to make you good at it...

Having said that, my Grand Prix is an auto. I share the perspective of being disappointed when I look in there and it's not a stick, but really it suits the character of this car better (aka "low & slow" cruiser) - and - there's the whole driving in traffic thing. It's murder trying to negotiate the Woodward Dream cruise with a stick - so - the GP becomes the Dream Cruiser of choice.

K

Due to the cool truck interior image - I Missed that "Dream Cruise" reference on the 1st pass Keith... Excellent point on topic. Thank you Sir!

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Did your '66 have a manual or a 2-spd? Also makes no sense to me why you'd ask for opinions again if
1. You already know what you want
2. Opinions asked for will be discounted due to predetermined agenda

No matter really. Reminds me of your recent "tire date code" Q then "Never Mind"...

Buy whatever what you want to. Enjoy the day.

For cryin' out loud! Would I ask for opinions if I already knew what I wanted? If my 66 was a manual, would I ask the initial question? And what was wrong with the tire date code question? I don't know how to read them and asked for assistance in the forum. Isnt that whats its for? Geez.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Old Blue 66

For cryin' out loud! Would I ask for opinions if I already knew what I wanted? If my 66 was a manual, would I ask the initial question? And what was wrong with the tire date code question? I don't know how to read them and asked for assistance in the forum. Isnt that whats its for? Geez.

Indeed, what these forums are good for opinions and banter.
That said: So, were your recent '99(?) TA and '66 LeMans Auto or Stick? Which did you prefer? How did YOU drive them?

Your question's like: Convertible or Hardtop? And: Does this dress make me look fat? http://youtu.be/VdNmgNu86xA

Smile, it's not that epic, really.

[goatman65]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

X2 on both of these!

I agree.

[geeteeohguy]

Old Blue, drive the 4 speed car if you can and you'll know if it's right for you. I can pretty much guarantee it'll put a grin on your face.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Your question's like: Does this dress make me look fat?

Are you serious?
Go troll the clubhouse.

[Alvin]

Shut The Front Door Whore!

BTT: Guess all of the "real men" here wouldn't ever be interested in a Poncho like this one? http://www.grautogallery.com/details...pr_id=&search=

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Alvin

BTT: Guess all of the "real men" here wouldn't ever be interested in a Poncho like this one? http://www.grautogallery.com/details...pr_id=&search=

Well, according to the collector car valuation guides, a 4 speed transmission is a 10% add on to the value of that car (and most other performance oriented cars).

The slush box isn't worth as much...

[GOAT WHORE]

Keith Martin's guides gives 20% over auto, iirc.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Well, according to the collector car valuation guides, a 4 speed transmission is a 10% add on to the value of that car (and most other performance oriented cars).

The slush box isn't worth as much...

Speaking of Slush - how's that early winter working for you? Heard a guy in E. Tx is still wearing his shorts today!

BTT: I'd take the Formy as is without a worry. F the Value Guides!

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Old Blue, drive the 4 speed car if you can and you'll know if it's right for you. I can pretty much guarantee it'll put a grin on your face.

The car is out of state. I may fly out and see it after a few detailed pics.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

Keith Martin's guides gives 20% over auto, iirc.

This may be true, but that's a different ballgame altogether. And even THAT may not hold true for much longer. The future collectors did not grow up with these crude machines and won't tolerate what we tolerated.

If I owned my classic cars only to show and for dollar value, sure, I'd choose a manual too. But I drive mine, EVERYDAY! Collector value is not my priority. If they're worth anything if/when I decide to sell them, price won't really matter as my true value is in the enjoyment I get from driving them. Then again, I haven't spent 80k restoring them, either.

I'm not ragging anybody's choice to prefer manuals, Heck I even like to row through the gears periodically myself. The problem I have is the inference that those who prefer automatics are somehow inherently inferior. I'll oppose that notion until the day I die.

And you can tell Keith Martin I said that.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by pont3

If I owned my classic cars only to show and for dollar value, sure, I'd choose a manual too. But I drive mine, EVERYDAY! Collector value is not my priority.

And you can tell Keith Martin I said that.

Shows and value are not my priority either. I too drive my car as much as I can. I have about 10,000 in the last two years and I only drive in the nice weather, in Oregon
As far as price guides go I don't make them and they do reflect market value which would indicate 4 spd's command a premium over an auto. They are more desirable like it or not.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Speaking of Slush - how's that early winter working for you? Heard a guy in E. Tx is still wearing his shorts today!

It's all melted, but we'll get some real snow soon...

BTT: I'd take the Formy as is without a worry. F the Value Guides!

If given to me, I'd take it too. But if I'm going to shell out $90,000.00 - I'm going to get the car I want.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by pont3

This may be true, but that's a different ballgame altogether. And even THAT may not hold true for much longer. The future collectors did not grow up with these crude machines and won't tolerate what we tolerated.

If I owned my classic cars only to show and for dollar value, sure, I'd choose a manual too. But I drive mine, EVERYDAY! Collector value is not my priority. If they're worth anything if/when I decide to sell them, price won't really matter as my true value is in the enjoyment I get from driving them. Then again, I haven't spent 80k restoring them, either.

I'm not ragging anybody's choice to prefer manuals, Heck I even like to row through the gears periodically myself. The problem I have is the inference that those who prefer automatics are somehow inherently inferior. I'll oppose that notion until the day I die.

And you can tell Keith Martin I said that.

I'm 59 - and my grandson is 18. He would prefer a manual transmission in a "toy" car if he were able to purchase one today. I think you sell the younger crowd short.

I don't own my cars for only showing or value either. I drive my cars as much as possible (based on where I live and the weather). The performance oriented cars have 4spds - because that is the way I like them.

My '49 Cadillac factory limo is an automatic - as it should be.

My '81 Chevy C10 is an automatic - but I don't like sticks on the column - and you just don't find many with a floor shift. It's not a performance truck anyway - I actually haul stuff in it when needed.

You seem to imply that driving a manual transmission car is "crude". Maybe for some in our society that is true. But in Europe - many luxury cars come equipped with manual transmissions.