[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by HO Kenny

Just got a 71 ta that someone put a doug nash 5 sp in it. They are supposed to have the "straight" cut gears as well. Can't wait to hear it once its road worthy.

The Nashes are noisier than a Super T-10 but not as sweet sounding as an M22.

You'll find it takes a bit more arm to shift if you are used to a Muncie...

[carnut4life]

I'm with you 2many, not even sure if my radio works because I'd rather hear the whine of the M22 and the exhaust over the factory radio

[165th]

Originally Posted by 165th

Here's some progress pictures of the business end of my '72 455HO WD going together.

Engine has 67,000 original documented miles and is still standard bore after the freshening up (.005" over after hone). Pistons are Diamond custom cut and peeking out of the bore 0.015". Jim says this is good.

Jim Robertson from these Forums is building this engine.

We have a dyno date set for December 2.

Fun Fun!

Originally Posted by Jim Robertson

Thanks to 165th (Greg) for sending his numbers engine to us for a freshening. We are proceeding through the build and are planning to run many original parts. A few things that may apply to your build/restoration below:
This block had some small rust pits in two cylinders. The corrosion was isolated to very near the top of the cylinder wall, but to remove the flaws entirely would have taken a +.060" and possibly as much as .100" overbore. The location of the pits was very near the uppermost travel of top ring. The original material of the block was saved by simply ordering a custom piston with the top ring land placed .250" below standard Pontiac locations. 2nd ring and oil ring were moved down slightly as well. Now the uppermost travel of the top ring stays out of the flaws allowing full performance and all original iron in the bores. We simply torque plate honed the block to ensure bores were round and ordered pistons that bore size. Therefore this block, even though it has been "into" before, is still just a tick over standard bore. :-)

Do not send your crank to just anyone. Spend the money for accurate machine work and a good crank guy is difficult to find...at least in West Texas. When we tore this one down it had hurt the mains very likely due to a clearance issue. If you have any work done always check both the front and rear diameter of every journal as taper can creep in causing inaccurate/inconsistent clearances. Highly recommend you do not send your HO or any Pontiac for that matter to just any rebuilder (i.e. butcher). There are some great folks that specialize.

No worries on the piston/deck clearance as we are running a .055" crushed gasket. .040" clear will work great with the parts selection and the intended use of this one.

Accurate and deliberate machining/tolerances contribute greatly to the performance. There are known reasons these cars ran 14s in the quarter in 1971-2 and now run in the 10s and 11s with the same basic equipment.

Agree with the posts about not porting original heads. If engine is built correctly 400hp can be achieved with the unported heads. Original block, crank, intake and carb are all able to support that number. A good valve job will pick up an unported intake port 40 cfm over stock flow numbers. Combine with a very mild but up to date lobe designs and you have a very fast street ride. If you need more than 400HP call me.

Sorry for the long post but felt compelled to present this,
Jim

RACE
Home of the 800HP Iron Dports
www.racev8s.com

P.S. Greg's stripe kits are phenomenal. A set is going on my 72 TA race car now.

Originally Posted by 165th

Update: We are still completing final assembly on the engine. Also, the dyno is being worked on and calibrated, so it will be a few more weeks.

Here are some final assembly notes and detailed pics:

The heads flowed at 243cfm intake at 0.5" valve lift and 167cfm exhaust. I think stock intake flow is around 205cfm. Even though the heads are still cast stock and not smoothed or ported, Jim attributes the increased flow to good valve seat machine work and a little work blending in the bottom seat cut.

The flow combined with the 0.015" piston poke out of the deck should create plenty of torque .

You can see Norwood's accurate reproduction stove bracket installed in the correct position. Thank you PB for your research on the topic of stove bracket positioning.

Also, the correct rear AC compressor bracket and original oil dip stick tube (uh... the bent one) positioned.

The engine was coated in Hirsch High Heat Cast Iron primer prior to Ames Medium Blue. Paint has been left off the hot spots on the heads on purpose. This will prevent having to always touch up the cooked blue paint on top of the heads. We'll see how the Hirsch primer holds up.

Original exhaust manifolds are at Ram Air Restoration Enterprises getting surfaced.

I hope the next update will be with dyno results!

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

Jim,
Just wondering....did you have to elongate the pushrod holes to use the 1.65 stamped rockers?

I thought about it when I built my engine, but was not sure if I would have to mill them out or not. I had already bought 1.5 roller tips and already had broken the heads down for work twice and just decided to forget about it. I had years earlier changed my heads over to 7/16 bottleneck adjustable. Thankfully NJ Steve pinged me before I got to far and informed me that I couldn't run my oil baffle plates with those rockers. Talk about noise. I'm happy for Greg and glad your the man doing it for him. Good luck to both of you and happy new year.

Eddie

Originally Posted by Jim Robertson

Eddie,
We did not have to elongate the pushrod openings. The reason is hard to put in words but...We decided on 1.65 rocker when we started the project. So we installed valves that are approx .200" longer than stock. This does two things a. Adjusts pushrod location and b. allows additional spring installed height for better spring selection. Then to achieve proper rocker geometry we needed a 9.350" pushrod which is approx .200" longer than stock. Even though the pushrod seat in the rocker arm is closer to the fulcrum than the 1.5 ratio rocker, the longer pushrod travels nearer the center of original opening. So, the longer valves alleviated interference and preserved the original castings and we have a top quality spring. Yes the pushrod is close to the original opening but still further than from the guideplates. I hope those gory details are clear enough.
Jim

I wanted to circle back and wrap up the story on the WD engine build that Jim Robertson built for Lucy. This is the car that Red Goat (Tim Burton) now owns and is completing the restoration on. The engine is a standard bore, 76K original mile and numbers matching to the car. No porting to the heads and completely concour stock appearing from the outside. As Jim has noted in the summary posts above, most of the added HP comes from the custom pistons, 1.65 rockers, custom cam, good valve grind and of course balanced rotating assembly.

The engine was dyno'd on November 1 at Willard's Machine in San Angelo and made 466HP and 535ft lbs of torque. This with the stock 7042273 carb and OEM exhaust manifolds.

I am very proud of Jim (center) and Milt (to Jim's left), and the rest of the crew at Samford Machine Shop in Abilene TX for their careful work on this engine. Jim currently has the YE from my '72 Lucy automatic console delete car, and I can only hope for similar results as this.

Here's a link to Tim's thread on Lucy's restoration:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=740095

[roland bourbeau]

I have what i thought was a 1970 455 ho engine. Some charts list it as an ho and some say only 1971 and 1972 are HO.IT is a 1970 xh block with 64 heads.Can someone enlighten me,any imput would be appreaciated.

[Formulabruce]

The XH "codes out" as a 350 hp 400 cu in engine for 1970
The #64 heads are for a 1970 GTO/GP 455 HO 360/370 hp..( 87 cc)
info credit : Wallace racing...
http://www.wallaceracing.com/engine.htm

[PureSD]

Were all '71 Ho's Ram Air or an option? Were many dealer installed?

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by PureSD

Were all '71 Ho's Ram Air or an option? Were many dealer installed?

RA was a factory option on '71 455 HO Formula's & 455 HO GTO's & endura nose '71 455 HO LeMans.
If such a "package" was installed at a dealer on a '71, it was ordered part by part over the parts counter. There was no dealer install accessory package for RA breather, & related parts.

[Judge273]

71 455 HO w/RA was standard only on Judge option....

[dlyle]

Originally Posted by roland bourbeau

I have what i thought was a 1970 455 ho engine. Some charts list it as an ho and some say only 1971 and 1972 are HO.IT is a 1970 xh block with 64 heads.Can someone enlighten me,any imput would be appreaciated.

My 70 GTO has a Ram Air 455. Motor is listed as 4BBL 455 HO code 344. Ram Air is listed as Air Inlet-HD code 601.

[Jim Robertson]

Thanks Greg for posting about WD's dyno session. The best torque and HP was achieved with 40 BTDC ignition timing. All the pulls were performed at 600RPM/sec acceleration rate. Did you load the videos of the pulls somewhere?

[2manyT/A'S]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Tran...US_Cars_Trucks

No mention of #'s match......

Bids seem a bit optimistc this early....16K?

[Judge273]

Lots of need to see that one in person. Typical ebay more pix of trunk than answers to key questions.

Not sure its driveable without a fan shroud and all...

[blue71ta]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Tran...US_Cars_Trucks

No mention of #'s match......

Bids seem a bit optimistc this early....16K?

that is the second time around on eBay. First time it got bid up to about $20K, reserve not met. It is also listed on CL for $30K. Think the seller is VERY optimistic in his price goal.

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by blue71ta

that is the second time around on eBay. First time it got bid up to about $20K, reserve not met. It is also listed on CL for $30K. Think the seller is VERY optimistic in his price goal.

Nice car but its a SR block and it needs quarters and he wants in the mid 20's for it. I agree a little optimistic.

[2manyT/A'S]

3 days out and 38 bids....and reserve not met.......?

It looks like some shill bidding going on there.

Realistically,what is this one worth,if all the important engine bits are there? 12-15k?

['ol Pinion head]

Realistically... too many lingering questions out there to go 18-20K blind, got agree... lower. Its a good color combo. One would need to have an expert opinion based on facts of carefully examining the car before putting a value as a project. Right off the bat, it's been noted the 1/4's need replacing. Full blown quality metal replacement is expensive, whether the repro full quarters are intro'ed soon, or not. Has it been in Florida for decades? Is the roof & A pillars rusting from he inside? Have shipped roofs that way for cars that have suffered that fate. What else body problems are lurking? Condition of outer wheelhouses, trunk ledge, trunkpan, rear frame rails, tailpanel, doors, original hood & fenders, along with floorpans need to be noted. On the drivetrain, is the trans & rearend born with pieces? Would def knock off value on engine... On the engine, to me, SR blocks means next to squat, only way it has near original block value is with original dealer & zone paperwork, other wise the SR block is "store bought". Existence & condition of original Q-jet, distrib, & intake & exhaust manifolds also comes into the picture, original wheels are gone...

[bossbirdta]

fresh meat....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...147cde&vxp=mtr

will be interesting if this one sells and for how much $$.$$$

[1971455HO]

Not a bad looking car. Don't want to pick it to death. First thing that jumped out at me was the restoration shop stated that the AC was charged and working. The compressor, muffler and hosing is wrong. That's for a Lemans or GTO. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. It's just not original to that car. Depending on how much? We'll see. Glad to see as many as can be saved... being saved.

Eddie

[2manyT/A'S]

Decent looking car.....It WILL be fun to see where the #'s go.......

Obviously a repro interior kit....looks nice but the color is off or is it my monitor/imagination?

Notice the fuel line to carb?............looks like it may have a Holly or chevy Q-jet on it from the direction it's going....

[RicksGTO]

PHS shows no A/C, wrong fenders, wrong style of a/c muffler/evaporator, lots of little things but still a solid, rust free '71 T/A with a 4 speed is tough to find.