[F ROCK]

and a photo of the shifter that is still stuck...

[Harry The Hammer]

I feel for you.
FWIW:I had a 77 Camaro that would stick the shifter like this & had to crawl under the car & move the levers on the trans by hand before it would work again,also had to move the bowl on the steering column.
Check your linkages for play & the trans levers

[Goathead66]

Is the bellhousing concentric with the crank ?- aftermarket bellhousing aren't real exact on their location in re-guards to the crank. When I put my scattershield on- the bore was way off center to the crank and had to get eccentric locating pins (Lakewood). Most clutch manufacturers stress the use of an indicator to make sure the crank and bellhousing bore lines up. There is a gauge available to make it easier as the indicator method is a pain. Just my 2 cents. Good luck

[Matt Meaney]

where did you get those grade 8 flywheel bolts? the head looks too thick to me. if it is, it will hit the springs in the disc and not let it release.

ok, found these on ebay. notice the thickness of the heads.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/55-79-Chevro...fc0242&vxp=mtr

[HWYSTR455]

Ok, you look good, all the photos show you're doing it right. The bolt heads for the flywheel don't go above the surface of the flywheel, and the Mr Gasket ones usually are fine.

The pilot bushing/bearing looks a little funky, but think it's the pic.

Remove the shifter and shift rods from the trans when you stab it back in. After the trans is in you can install the shifter. You need the adjustment pin or you can use a drill bit, to make the shifter adjustments. Period.

The shift tabs need to be vertical for it to be in neutral. All should face/point up when properly assembled. Maybe take a shot of that and post.

When you align the disc with the tool, take your time and do your best to make sure it's as centered as possible.

The throw out bearing looks like the right one by the way.

Not sure how you were checking to see if the clutch was working the first time, but if the shifter has the internals locked up, because of adjustment, it's never going to disengage.

Stab the trans back in and try to take a pic of the fork angle from below. That will show if the throw out is the correct length, and everything else can then be done with the trans in place.

.

[BB70]

Make sure that the clutch pedal -where the pushrod attatches isn't bent. You can lose valuable travel length if it is. I've had to straighten and weld a brace on mine.
John

[HWYSTR455]

Flywheels have specs for thickness just like brake rotors do, and like I said, no way you can cut a flywheel enough to impact geometry. Most common reason folks need to use an adjustable pivot ball in the bell housing is a block plate.

The threaded rod portion of the pushrod that contacts the fork is prone to heat fatigue, and they do bend, especially with higher pedal pressure pressure plates. I think Moroso used to make a beefier one, but they were cut to length. Rods that were really prone to bending were the setups that used that brass square with a threaded hole, the rod had little support.

There's a couple places that make spherical end rod setups that fix this issue, or you can make your own.

http://www.speeddirect.com/index.php...ucts/rod-links

Another trick is to drill another hole in the z bar so the mechanical throw is increased. That way you can limit the pedal movement, make the pedal lower, and almost even with the brake pedal.

.

[Formula8]

Sorry, but I thought my posting was pretty clear. My set up worked perfectly. I swapped out the stock type clutch for a DFII. No other changes than that and cutting the flywheel. Clutch had to go to the floor. I took it apart, measured everything and needed a longer pivot to meet the stock spec. I also measured the distance to the tip of the fingers and there was a .250 difference. Sooooo......to get me back where I was, I needed a .250 taller T/O bearing. Simple as that. My point is check to make sure you get what you need.

[F ROCK]

thanks again guys.
I've got it all back together with the same result.

about the shifter: I've noticed that the cotter pins that hold the rods to the shifter, are actually bent nails and they are part of the problem. It's possible that the linkage was bent a bit during the war, causing the nails to contact one another too, so here's a good time to put real pins in there huh?

so the real issue here is that the pedal goes to the floor and all that I feel is the springs.
yes; I need to get someone over here to push the pedal so I can observe; but tell me if this picture looks right?
is that the edge of my clutch pad that I see sandwinched there and should it be visible? could it be too big? I think I ordered the 10.4".
I noticed, as I was installing the cover (pressure plate?)...as the bolts were almost tightened completely, with every turn of the wrench, the tines moved inward, and the cone shape decreased.

[salem1912]

Yes it is the disc you see and is correct. And as you tighten the pressure plate down to the flywheel the tines will move. Your problem has to be in the z bar or pedal linkage. How did you mount the tap on the frame side that the z bar bolts to? By saying you only feel the springs do you mean the return spring on the Z bar? From under the car by hand push the clutch fork rearward now is there alot of play in the z bar? Deal with the shifter later.

[F ROCK]

thanks Tom, for confirming.
the frame mount, I believe is installed correctly, using the two holes, already drilled in the frame. the z bar is mounted correctly, and is nice and straight. do you have any tips on tightening that nut on the frame end? mine is not as tight as i'd like it to be and i'm sure that's worth a little bit of slack. how tight should it be?
and how do you lubricate the zbar? the one in my 66 was full of grease..that was pretty messy. are you supposed to use grease? I didn't notice a grease fitting.

[salem1912]

Yes that has to be tight no play is it possible to get a pair of needle nose vise grip on the back side of the ball stud? And it you have no grease fitting pack chassis grease around both ball studs. If you have PY catolog look at the clutch parts section as these '68-'72 have a lot more parts than the '66-'67. You really need someone to push the pedal while you watch from underneath.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Formula8

Sorry, but I thought my posting was pretty clear. My set up worked perfectly. I swapped out the stock type clutch for a DFII. No other changes than that and cutting the flywheel. Clutch had to go to the floor. I took it apart, measured everything and needed a longer pivot to meet the stock spec. I also measured the distance to the tip of the fingers and there was a .250 difference. Sooooo......to get me back where I was, I needed a .250 taller T/O bearing. Simple as that. My point is check to make sure you get what you need.

I'm still lost, trying to understand here. I think the issue with your setup was the fact that the pressure plate was .250 shorter, which required a longer throw out. Think about it, the rear of the block and the bell housing, are both fixed distants, and turning a flywheel .002 or .003 isn't going to to change that distance enough to impact the pivot ball.

Where did you find the stock spec for the pivot ball, and what is it?

.

[HWYSTR455]

Yeah, that's the short one. So, with it all assembled, WITHOUT the push rod in place or on the fork, and you work the fork so the bearing hits the pressure plate, what is the orientation of the fork in relation to the centerline of the trans/crank?

That determines if the throw out bearing is the right length.

Also try to explain better what you don't feel is right if you can.

.

[F ROCK]

here are afew more pics.
the bellhousing had the 978xxx number on it so I assume its factory.
the fork has no number that I can see right now.
the fork doesn't seem to move much when its clipped in there.
does this look likew the correct ball, and is this something that gets adjusted?

[HWYSTR455]

I still can't see where the problem is, need to be able to see it all together, and the location of the fork with all the slack taken out of it. A pic from below of the fork, and a pic of the z-bar should help.

I am not aware of any factory pivot balls that are adjustable, at least not GM ones, and no, it doesn't get adjusted. We are so far from determining if an adjustable pivot ball would be needed in this case, don't even think about that until everything else is eliminated.

Nails in the shifter? Are you still trying to install the trans with the shifter installed on it? If it's a Hurst shifter, buy a pit pack and the adjustment tool before you even think about installing it on the trans. Seriously. And you still need to ensure the trans is in neutral before you try to install the trans, so need to know which way the shifter tabs are pointing. Both forks should be centered, the slot/keyway should be vertical.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/huu-3327302

As for watching the tines, or fingers, or whatever, compress as you tighten the bolts, yeah, it's supposed to do that, it's applying pressure to the disc so it engages. If it were completely relaxed, there would be no pressure applied to the disc/flywheel, and it would slip or actually, not engage at all. And it is important to go in increments around the pressure plate as you tighten the bolts as to not damage the spring material in the pressure plate. If it becomes distorted, it won't apply pressure evenly to the disc and it will fail early.

At this point, the only things that I can see that might be a problem here it either the throw out bearing is too short or the z-bar and/or associated linkage is installed wrong or are the wrong ones for the application.

The ball stud that goes in the z-bar on the frame side has a clip that retains it, has 2 nylon cup washers on either side of the ball, and a gauze washer. The threaded part of the ball is slotted/keywayed and goes into the slot in the plate. If the z-bar has a grease fitting it can be greased, if not, you pack it with grease.

A service manual would probably be very valuable for a number of items discussed here.

.

.

[Formula8]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I'm still lost, trying to understand here. I think the issue with your setup was the fact that the pressure plate was .250 shorter, which required a longer throw out. Think about it, the rear of the block and the bell housing, are both fixed distants, and turning a flywheel .002 or .003 isn't going to to change that distance enough to impact the pivot ball.

Where did you find the stock spec for the pivot ball, and what is it?

.

Here is a write up that may assist the OP: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/clutches_etc.htm

My instructions from centerforce gave me the spec. I'll see if I can find it but as I remember, I set it the same as this guy in his video @ 4.750:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=22TwNOpXcPA

[JSPONT]

For a few more $$ check out centerforce kit. I never had any problem with them. Ran them in many of my cars. Keep us posted!

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Formula8

Here is a write up that may assist the OP: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/clutches_etc.htm

My instructions from centerforce gave me the spec. I'll see if I can find it but as I remember, I set it the same as this guy in his video @ 4.750:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=22TwNOpXcPA

I was looking at that write up, and found a number of errors, then basically gave up. I realize that in a 'conversion' situation, some areas need to be verified, but terminology is still terminology, and how some of the 'checks' were done were off base. For one, you don't measure air gap with a ruler between the pressure plate fingers and the bearing. It's done with a feeler gauge with the pedal depressed. Also, there are different bearings for pressure plates that have straight fingers, the edges of the bearing are rolled.

Unfortunately, at work, YouTube is blocked, but will check that vid when I get home.

The only time I can think of that an adjustable pivot ball would help is in an instance where you use one of those flat finger pressure plates, because the amount of throw/travel is critical. The range of motion is very short with those type, so any slop, or incorrect geometry, can/will impact operation. In almost all other situations, you can compensate with throw out bearings and adjustment.

If yours is working fine, then obviously, there's no issue, I'm just pointing out that it most likely was corrected with the throw out bearing, the pivot ball could have remained, and there's a bunch of ways to cook that chicken.

Clutch air gap is critical for proper disengagement, clutch free play is critical due to engine to body movement, so both need to be correctly adjusted. Back in the day, when folks would push a 4 speed car hard(or 3 for that matter), it was possible to have the clutch or shifter hang during hard acceleration. Diaphragm pressure plates were notorious for not engaging at high RPM, and wouldn't engage until you let off the gas. That's why Borg & Beck pressure plates came about. CenterForce deals with the problem by adding weights to the fingers on a diaphragm pressure plate, but, those weights can get hung between fingers, at high RPM they can still hang, and the weights can fall off. I know lots of folks have good results with them, but IMO, they're just a typical diaphragm with a band aid.

.

[wrenchmen]

Just to confirm that you have checked a possible problem that has been mentioned several times but you have not clearly stated you checked this;
the flywheel bolts that hold the flywheel to the crankshaft can sometimes make contact with the springs in the clutch disc, as those springs protrude into the recessed area of the flywheel when the clutch disc is in place.