[mgarblik]

I can only recommend that my customers who are really hooked on Hyundai's and Kia's lease them and turn them in at the lease end. Even if the Stinger had a V-16 and 1000 HP, it would fall apart and disintegrate the day after the warranty expired, like it has a timer in it. I work on these cars every day. They start out within class neck and neck with their Toyota and Honda benchmarks. Three years later, the Toyota and Honda's are just broken in and the Koreans are just broken. They are much better than they were 20 years ago, but so are ALL cars. If you really love the Stinger, wait 5 years and buy one for less than 10K. I have a terrible time finding used engines for them in the wrecking yards. They are all dead.

[Chief of the 60's]

LOL

It is the GM's that disintegrate by 50,000 miles and this thread is proof. Most every other marquis is kept 5, 10, 15 years or more. GM's are leased or traded in within 2 to 3. If kept any longer they fall apart, which is another reason why they have one of the worst warranty coverage in the market.

[Dick Boneske]

It's odd that you say that. I have a '95 Buick Roadmaster wagon with 156,000 miles that runs very well. 350 c.i. LT1. Only maintenance has been brakes, tires, and a water pump. Uses NO OIL and gets consistent 21+ mpg in overall driving.

My '76 Pontiac Grand Safari went 175,000 miles with no major repairs.

Drove a '77 Pontiac Grand Safari to 265,000 miles with only tires, brakes, & one radiator. I put a 455 in it a 155,000 miles, because I wanted more power for towing my boat and snowmobile trailer, but even that was 3X your 50,000 mile statement of the life of a GM car..

I've spoken with many GM owners with the 3.8 V6 that have gone over 250,000 miles with no major work.

I would never buy a Korean, German, or Japanese car, but, unless you are completely out of touch with newer cars, they all are better in every way than cars from the last century or even most of them previous to 2010.

[Chief of the 60's]

GM made their last good car in 1977.

How many times has that Optispark crapped out on you?

If the GM faithful must bring up antiques as a comeback to being better than todays cars perhaps they are the ones that are out of touch and need to get with the times. Living in the past is not the way to live and todays GM is only held together by those people living in that past and certainly not on GM's merit.

GM should have went down with the ship instead of the Government bailing them out. GM never learned a thing from it and is destine to repeat itself.

At least Hyundai/Kia never told a parent that it was their daughter's fault that she was killed in one of their cars because of too many keys.

[Dick Boneske]

Optispark never has given me a problem. I've had two GM cars with LT1's with Optispark. I think they would fail if driven through water more than a foot deep.

I don't believe my "antiques" are better than today's cars. I had a 2009 Buick Enclave we drove for 98,000 miles with no major repairs. Quietest, most comfortable car we've owned.

Loved our 2000 Bonneville SSei from new to 90,000 miles. I replaced the battery--no major problems.

Our 2007 Grand Prix GXP was a fantastic car--(replaced the SSei). 25+ mpg consistently and FUN TO DRIVE.

Our 2014 Chev SS is fast, economical, and a blast to drive.

Yes, I'm a GM fan.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

LOL

It is the GM's that disintegrate by 50,000 miles and this thread is proof. Most every other marquis is kept 5, 10, 15 years or more. GM's are leased or traded in within 2 to 3. If kept any longer they fall apart, which is another reason why they have one of the worst warranty coverage in the market.

Do you have any more lies, half truths and misconceptions you want to spread?

My company car is a Chevy Impala with 231,000 miles on it. I will get my new one once I hit 300,000. I put 1,000 miles a week on it.

I"ve put 100,000+ thousand miles on every GM car I have purchased since I purchased a new 1979 Pontiac Grand LeMans. The LeMans served me well until I sold it in 1991 for 1,000 with 211,000 miles on the odometer.

I traded in the 2006 Pontiac Torrent (that I also bought new) in October of '16 with 128,000 miles on it.

Oh, BTW, you didn't provide proof of any thing. You posted links to articles that it took me 23 seconds to discredit your interpretation of what you thought they meant. The articles were factual - the fact that you failed to understand what they said is on you.

[flyingn]

I would NEVER ever buy a Kia. Ever.. I have a bud who is a Kia/hyundai mechanic and you should hear the stories on how cheap the components are on Korean cars. No thanks

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by flyingn

I would NEVER ever buy a Kia. Ever.. I have a bud who is a Kia/hyundai mechanic and you should hear the stories on how cheap the components are on Korean cars. No thanks

GM like any giant auto manufacturer has had it's winners and losers over the past 40 years. So you will never get agreement on a Pontiac forum about how good GM cars are or Hyundai or Kia. Because of the huge number of components, design and origin of them, some are great, some OK, and some junk out of the box. From a performance and reliability standpoint, I bet I can get general agreement that the 3800 V-6, all the LS series and most Ecotech engines are pretty darn good. Also the T460-T4655E, L460E-L480E, and Allison transmissions are pretty good too. Packard electronic components and Delphi parts on the cars, pretty darn good. Put it all together and you probably have a good GM car. But they certainly have produced plenty of duds too. The 3.4 Dual Twin cam, Quad 4, 3.1-3.4L family, all marginal. Early 700 Trans, 200, 250C, all marginal. It's all about the components. Personally, I would never buy a new GM vehicle because of what they did to the Pontiac division over the last 40 years, finally killing it off. They got rid of their 3 best, unique divisions, Oldsmiobile, Pontiac, Hummer. Kept the bland DUD, Buick, the one no normal American can afford, Cadillac, and the cheap crap, Chevy. But I obviously come in with a strong Pontiac Bias.
Hyundia and Kia have a marketing plan perfectly geared for the millinials. A car that looks good and runs good for a year or two until they get tired of it, wreck it, trade it in on a new one or turn it in at lease end. They don't have to care for it or even change oil for a couple years. Their attention span is so short, by the time it dies they are done with it anyway. Long factory warranty, so no X-box money has to be "wasted" on "the car". Korean cars live perfectly in this world.

[Chief of the 60's]

Lets not forget Hyundai/Kia have a 10 yr./100,000 mi. warranty, 6 yr./60,000 of it is bumper to bumper. Best in the industry.

They put a warranty on their vehicles "if" they need it. GM puts a warranty on their vehicles "because" they need it and then its like pulling teeth to get them to warranty the vehicles.

I had to take my '87 Formula in 6 times for smoke and excessive oil consumption, each time I was told, "no problem found". After doing some research on my own I found out that GM had defective valve seals in their V8's at the time. It was only after I told the Zone Rep that there was a TSB on the valve seals and I was going to take them to court that they finally fixed the car. There was another problem with the car stalling when you depress the clutch with the A/C on that they never fixed. My '88 Fiero GT has a flooding issue that was never solved and still floods to this day.

I bought my final new GM product in 1997. It was a GMC Sonoma, loaded with every single option and it stickered at $28,000.00. Before I would take delivery the dealer had to align the bed that was so cockeyed you could put your whole hand in one side between the bed and the cab and couldn't get your finger in between the other side. They also had to properly install the cab side mouldings that were on at a 3/4" diagonal and repaint the hood. The front bumper was also way out of alignment but the dealer told me that the only way to align the front bumper was to cut and re-weld the fenders because they were stamped wrong. After I was finally able to accept delivery the truck went back 3 times for a bad driveline vibration, transmission leak, 3 transmissions (1 never made it out of the shop), electronic 4x4 quit, bad rear pinion bearing and the fuel gauge was off by a 1/4 tank. The fuel gauge was never fixed, they told me to keep the tank full. I had that truck for 58 weeks, 23 out of the 58 it was at the dealer getting fixed. I sold it with 2800 miles on it and bought a Dodge Dakota that I never had a single issue with.

I have also had a '89 Turbo Grand Am - JUNK But the biggest POS I owned was a Cadillac Allante with that timebomb POS Northstar

It will be a cold day in hell that this driveway sees anymore late model GM anything.

[craigs69]

After reading through this thread I had to look to see which section I was browsing. At first I thought I had entered the race section or the clubhouse, but sadly I realized that I was in the lobby.

[Chief of the 60's]

lol

I thought I got redirected to a GM propaganda website.

[gtohurstjudge]

The 100K drivetrain warranty on a Kia isn't worth the paper it is written on. A customer of mine brought his Kia in to my shop with 50,000 miles on it. The factory water pump had come apart and thrown the timing belt out of sync,
destroying the engine. Kia refused to pay one dime towards the repair as the damage was not caused by the failure of an internally lubricated part. He had to pay me thousands to put a used engine in the car. He then sold it and bought a Chevy. Also, it is really screwed up that in America today you can't buy a new Olds or Pontiac but you can buy a piece
of crap Korean car. What are people thinking? I get 100's and 100's of thousands of miles out of my GM's and Fords with very little in the way of repairs.

[NBF823]

I own a Kia. Its certainly not a source of pride. More of a pride sucking machine if anything. Its cheap tho, and it leaves me money to do other things. I does have me shopping for a replacement constantly though - not because its a bad car, but because its a joyless car.

Its been fairly reliable. It depreciated faster than an arterial bleed though. I dont have many miles on it, so high mile reliability; I couldnt tell ya. Seems reliable. Seems like it will run forever cause I hate it really. Ill probably have to throw it away at 100k, mostlikely clutch not worth fixing, but who knows.

I own a pontiac clearly. I also own an old nissan witch breaks quite often, but always seems to run in a broken state. Usually when my pontiac broke, that was it - its broke. I think power causes that more than anything though.

My parents have an 80s buick. Fwd 3.8. Its pretty reliable. Theyve offered it up to me a few times when my nissan acted up in the past. It has more power than my nissan, but I could never trade. The buick is a fwd auto with 60/40 weight dist, and I dont like it because of that. Sad I dont like a car my parents own, but it is what it is. Pretty sure Id feel the same way if it were a ssei or a gtp.


Id rather argue performance makes and design features vs luxury or economy makes than argue brand. So far kia doesnt make anything i like, and its a give and a take on what lasts and what doesnt i suppose.

Id like to have pride in all us cars, but it is what it is

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The 100K drivetrain warranty on a Kia isn't worth the paper it is written on. A customer of mine brought his Kia in to my shop with 50,000 miles on it. The factory water pump had come apart and thrown the timing belt out of sync,
destroying the engine. Kia refused to pay one dime towards the repair as the damage was not caused by the failure of an internally lubricated part. He had to pay me thousands to put a used engine in the car. He then sold it and bought a Chevy. Also, it is really screwed up that in America today you can't buy a new Olds or Pontiac but you can buy a piece
of crap Korean car. What are people thinking? I get 100's and 100's of thousands of miles out of my GM's and Fords with very little in the way of repairs.

Do you have any proof of this?

Like I said, I have a friend that is the head Kia mechanic at a Kia dealership and I know for a fact that he would say you were B.S.ing to protect your brand.

I also know a Honda mechanic that is a former GM mechanic. He never realized how easy life was until he stopped being a GM mechanic.

I also know that GM vehicles kill innocent people.

[GruntedCatalina]

being in the auto industry myself for some time now. omitting the brands of course. Ive seen $400k cars with warranties blow and, ive seen $10k cars last 100,ooo miles. All you can really do when it comes to these machines we love is enjoy it for what it is. and to be honest, that Kia has the look, the sound, the power at a real consumer affordable price without losing driveability, availability or any other corner you can cut. yeah its a kia but, ill be damned to hate on a company that uses tried and true mechanics(tech is from the 90s-00s) but put a semi to date vehicle thatll do what people are accustomed to now

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by GruntedCatalina

being in the auto industry myself for some time now. omitting the brands of course. Ive seen $400k cars with warranties blow and, ive seen $10k cars last 100,ooo miles. All you can really do when it comes to these machines we love is enjoy it for what it is. and to be honest, that Kia has the look, the sound, the power at a real consumer affordable price without losing driveability, availability or any other corner you can cut. yeah its a kia but, ill be damned to hate on a company that uses tried and true mechanics(tech is from the 90s-00s) but put a semi to date vehicle thatll do what people are accustomed to now

That my friend is as unbiased of a statement as it gets.

Thank you for this moment of absolute honesty.

[nas t eh]

My Daughter has a Kia Rio or Rondo? Can't remember which ( it's a small SUV that seats seven) she bought it 2 years ago slightly used. It's falling apart and she hates the two dealers in town. (Expensive, ineffective and condescending)

Over Christmas when she comes up, I be fixing a shorted signal light and broken seat belt to help her out a bit, but the thing needs so much more.
Warranty is useless if the dealers are bad

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

My Daughter has a Kia Rio or Rondo? Can't remember which ( it's a small SUV that seats seven) she bought it 2 years ago slightly used. It's falling apart and she hates the two dealers in town. (Expensive, ineffective and condescending)

What year is it and how is it "falling apart"?

[nas t eh]

It's a 2011, Suspension noises, wiring issues, lots of plastic parts crumbling, even the ignition key fell apart.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by nas t eh

It's a 2011, Suspension noises, wiring issues, lots of plastic parts crumbling, even the ignition key fell apart.

So, no blown engine? No blown transmission? Never left for dead on the side of the road?

The key.... You should be glad it isn't a GM product. You know what happens with keys in their ignitions.