[Cliff R]

+2 or 3 for the Baldwin B-39. Haven't used anything else since we found and tested these about 15 years ago. They are also just a tad shorter than most full size filters and provide a little more header clearance and easier to install on many applications that are using 4 tube headers.

I'd add here that no other filters we've used or tested has as fast of a response on the oil pressure gauge when you rev the engine. These are full-flow with no anti-drain back devices......Cliff

[tom s]

2X Cliff,have been using Baldwin products since 1972.Tom

[Steve C.]

"I would like to see someone argue that Bill Miller doesn't know what he is doing."

What most have figured out is the oil filter in the upper picture within post number 32 above is not a 'regular' Fram oil filter ! It is their High Performance Series and not to be compared to the Fram type being discussed here within this thread. The one pictured would be similar to the HP-2 that I have already mentioned.


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[Cliff R]

I wouldn't touch anything from Fram with a 10 foot pole. One never knows with all this outsourcing going on where the part is going to come from and I've seen a HUGE reduction in quality from them dating back over 20 years.

The ONLY Pontiac engine I ever got back here showed up one day without any warning from a customer here in Ohio. He was NOT happy with us or his new engine as it for some reason very quickly went to zero oil pressure.

We put it on the engine stand, removed the oil pan expecting a sheared pump drive shaft or pump was damaged or fell off the block, but EVERTHING looked fine. I then removed his Fram Oil filter and put on a B-39. We hooked up our mechanical gauge to the engine, put the 1/2" drill on the pump and oil pressure was fine. Luckily the owner didn't run the engine long with the Fram oil filter on it so it wasn't hurt either.

That isn't the first time I've seen folks have troubles with Fram oil filter and IMHO they are to be avoided...........FWIW.......Cliff

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

It sure does




I would like to see someone argue that Bill Miller doesn't know what he is doing.

I'm going with what a Pro uses in a 1/2 million dollar, 12000 horse engine, not what is read on the internet. If Fram is good for 12000 horse it is certainly good for 300 - 1000 horse. I don't know if it is Fram haters or Fram envy but the pros obviously know what to use.

[Steve C.]

" don't know if it is Fram haters or Fram envy but the pros obviously know what to use."

ONE MORE TIME, the filter you present here as an example is not a "regular" Fram filter being discussed in the thread.


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[SR-71]

You aren't suggesting that manufactures giving contingency money to owners of multi million dollar teams and cars would make a special filter to insure there was no failures are you? I mean that would be um... smart.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

" don't know if it is Fram haters or Fram envy but the pros obviously know what to use."

ONE MORE TIME, the filter you present here as an example is not a "regular" Fram filter being discussed in the thread.


.

ONE MORE TIME

That is not the way I read it.

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I wouldn't touch anything from Fram with a 10 foot pole.

That isn't the first time I've seen folks have troubles with Fram oil filter and IMHO they are to be avoided...........FWIW.......Cliff

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by SR-71

You aren't suggesting that manufactures giving contingency money to owners of multi million dollar teams and cars would make a special filter to insure there was no failures are you? I mean that would be um... smart.

They don't and any suggestion of that by anyone is just plain silly. A Fram HP filter on a T/F car is the same Fram HP filter that can be found on an Advance Auto Parts shelf. Also, race teams would not jeopardize an uber-doller engine or a race for the few dollars you get from contingencies.

Now, unlike some people, I am not telling anyone what to use, but I am also not telling anyone what not to use base on hate or envy.

[Sirrotica]

Fram offers 3 different grades of consumer oil filters, that says that we're going to sell you what you want to pay for. If you want the cheapest thing we offer we'll sell it to you. If you want to spend more for better quality we can sell you that too. Wix/NAPA does the same scenario, but they have 2 grades instead of 3. A classic case of you get what you pay for. I'm certain that Fram has the knowledge/ability to build top quality filters, but for 3 bucks you're not getting the best materials nor cutting edge technology.

Fram did used to be a quality oil filter, at that time there were not 3 different grades of consumer grade filters. The cutaway filters I have seen are always the cheapest in their line and I wouldn't use one on my own vehicles. Fram reacted to the market and for the last 10+ years consumers wanted the cheapest price. You can't put better components in a product, and match the cheapest prices of the competition. The market drives pricing and since the consumer market wants the cheapest possible price you get a cheap quality product, most likely made offshore.

Fram on their own website says,

Some plants also have earned a number of quality certifications including ISO 14001 and ISO/QS 9000.

All of their plants do not meet these tough standards, you decide, why?

I usually try to use the top grade Purolator, or Wix/NAPA filters on my vehicles, but I also rely on a by pass filter to keep the oil clean of all solids, it does a much more thorough job. The full flow filter is a compromise that does an almost adequate job of removing large solids. To keep the smaller solids out you really need something of better design than a full flow filter has the ability to remove from the oil. If you're spending $10 a quart for your oil, letting it get contaminated by 20-40 micron solids is always going to result in being drained and thrown away much sooner that if you're filtering it to a 1-2 micron standard.

I don't use $10 a quart oil, but I still want it filtered to a very high standard protecting the internally lubricated engine surfaces from fine abrasive solids that will wear the engine parts, It does make a difference.

[Steve C.]

The Fram PH25 shown in post number 11 and discussed within this thread is not apples-to-apples compared to a HP series Fram filter !

I presume FRAM is still the official filter of the NHRA.


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[grandam1979]

Anyone use Bosch? This is smaller profile than the Frame hp.

[mgarblik]

The average price of a new car in 2018 is $39,200.00. So I am amazed that the "consumer driven" market desires a $2.00 oil filter for that vehicle. But what do I know. Our collector cars have even higher value and sentimental attachment. That said, in 45 years in the business and thousands and thousands of oil changes, I have never had a situation where I could say the "oil filter failed", or "the oil filter ruined the engine". That's just very hard to prove and I have been called as an "expert witness" in engine related litigation. Is one filter better than another? Certainly when you cut them open and look at the inside, there are differences in the size, pleats, materials of the element, the valves and seals and case thickness. There are so many points of manufacturer, so many different quality lines, all intended to make it nearly impossible to know for sure exactly what you are buying. I have been through the Fram plant near my hometown. A huge facility making millions of filters a year. In the same building they make classic orange, white, black, green, silver, blue and yellow filter cans. Dozens of private labels for all kinds of oil filters. So what to do? I would make damn sure you only buy your oil filters from a reputable supplier, store or on-line source. Millions of counterfeit filters are being sold on-line and at flee markets and they are complete fakes. Some having no filter elements in them, some missing drainback valves. Now that is scary. As mentioned in other posts, I would buy the higher line filter from the brand of your choice and not look back. Personally, for the last 6 years or so I have been using NAPA Gold filters because I am a master dealer and they are WIX which is a proven good filter. But I have used every brand out there without issue including the hated FRAM orange ones with the cardboard components. You can drive yourself crazy fretting over stuff like this. There are more important things to worry about in the engine than a cardboard vs a paper thin corrugated metal element support. On my old Pontiac, I use an AC PF 24 rather than the NAPA Gold. Not because it's a better filter, but you can clearly see it with the hood up. The blue can looks better. Change the oil and filter often and I can't imagine the filter ever being an issue. Just my 2 cents.

[Chief of the 60's]

I think you are a bit off..... https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300606367.html

The analysts at Kelley Blue Book today reported the estimated average transaction price (ATP) for light vehicles in the United States was $35,444 in February 2018

[73ta]

Here is a good read on oil filters:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...reference.html

I'll be sticking to my K&N/Mobile1 filter!

[Steve C.]

I believe this material is from the same study I mentioned here in post #17 or appears so, but in a different form. But it appears to contain material indicating how the Fram HP series is different than the 'regular' Fram filter being discussed here within this thread. That said, it does not include all the HP filters.

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[Will]

The idea that anyone has "filter envy" is ludicrous.

Bottom line - I've cut open filters and seen plenty of other pictures of cut open filters and the fram PH-series are garbage. The NAPA Gold and Wix are much better filters and sold at NAPA where I generally buy all my parts so i go with them. Are the top of the line Fram filters better than their bottom-line stuff? I'd sure hope so, but I don't really care and it's not worth it to me to even bother to find out. The basic Bosch and NAPA filters are better quality than the cheap Frams and I'll use those on my beater daily driver. It has nothing to do with "hate" or "envy" or any other such nonsense. Why would I waste that much energy on a stupid oil filter? I *know* the NAPA/Wix option is quality and I know the Bosch & Napa silver filters are still better than the cheap Frams and they're what the parts store of my choice sells, so I'll just keep my life simple and buy those. Everyone else can buy whatever they want.

[leeklm]

Because we need more feedback on this topic, I started using the Bosch #D3430 last summer. It is a little smaller in size and more convenient with headers, and has a higher burst rating than many spin on filters. Has a heavy feel to it and appears to be a high quality filter.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Cliff R]

The idea that anyone has "filter envy" is ludicrous.

+2

Like most other parts associated with this hobby I use what works the best and gives us the least problems.

My particular application requires a short filter to clear the headers, so most full length stock replacement filters are difficult if not impossible to use right to start with. I used the Purolator filters for several years then they become unavailable in the shorter length required. This was around 20 years ago, so this led me on a search for a filter that would fit. Using advise from others who required a smaller filter I tried several and none of them made the grade. Not sure how, when, etc but someone made mention on here that Baldwin made a full flow filter w/o the anti-drainback feature that was full diameter but shorter than most stock replacement filters.

I tried one and immediately noticed how much quicker my oil pressure gauge responded to changes in engine RPM's vs anything else that I had previously tested. Of course that fact alone really didn't make me think it was really any better, but it was one observation that made me think for sure that it probably wasn't as restrictive as the previous filters I'd tried.

I'd also mention here that we block off the bypass feature in the oil filter housings so all the oil is filtered. This may have been why I had problems with several of the other small filters we tried failing. One of them actually started leaking, another we tried failed and the oil pressure went to down to about 30 psi then to zero. This is the same problem my customer experienced shortly after installing a Fram oil filter on his 455.

Anyhow, the Baldwin B-39 is very well made and we've had zero issues with them for many years now. So as long as they remain available no want or need to go any other direction.

I'm sure there are other filters out there that are also high quality and would make the grade. K & N is likely to be one of them as I've had excellent feedback from quite a few folks who went to them after having issues with other brands. A friend of mine here locally was actually close to removing the engine from his 2007 Suburban do to oil pressure issues. For some reason his 5.3 engine would start to show low oil pressure about 2000 miles after an oil change. He would remove the oil filter and spin on a new one and good for another 2000 miles or so. He had tried several different filters, all "high end" stuff but no change with this issue.

Recently he installed a K & N filter and it went the full distance to the next oil change interval without seeing this problem. He's currently well into the second K & N filter and the issue has not happened again. Not sure why or how the type of oil filter used on that particular engine causes the problem he's seeing, but we even bought a custom tuner before the filter testing to eliminate the Active Fuel Management system thinking that somehow it may responsible for the issues but it didn't help........Cliff

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

I think you are a bit off..... https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300606367.html

My source for the 39K average was Automotive News an industry weekly magazine I had glanced at at my school. It may have included all sales in North America. Canada and Mexico may have skewed the number up some. Just got my Consumer Reports Auto issue yesterday. They like to round numbers. They say in this hot off the press issue that the average price of a new vehicle is slightly north of 36K. But I guess my general point is if I am spending more on my new car than my first house cost, saving $1.00 or even $3.00 on a cheap oil filter doesn't enter the picture. I fully realize that that extra $1.00 "wasted", could mean an extra squirt of whipped cream on their $4.00 Starbucks latte. For full disclosure purposes, we have been getting a little sponsor help from our local NAPA store for 6 years or so. So of course WIX is the best filter in the world!!!. FWIW, WIX was purchased about a year ago by MANN filtration of Germany. They are another quality filter brand.