[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

I showed Joe's video to another machinist who owned his own machine shop for over 25 years. I suggested nothing, just asked him to watch and see what he thinks the noise might be. As soon as it started knosking, the first words out of his mouth is "that's spark knock". I personally have never heard spark knock at an idle so I asked him to clarify. He said the engine is running too slow to deal with the amount of timing it has and it's causing a spark knock. Spark knock is NOT a machanical knock[which would explain why I found nothing in the engine that would cause a mechanical knock]. It's an ignition knock. This has been suggested many times in this thread but seems to fall on deaf ears.

I pulled the distributor when I got the engine back from dyno. I checked the busing which was fine and I restabbed the distributor BUT had no way of setting the timing. That is why I wrote on a piece of tape on the carb plate that the timing needs to be reset. It was only close enough to get the engine to start and run.

You need to get the idle RPM up and not down at 400-500 RPM. That's just ridiculously slow for an engine with this much cam in it. I only hear the knock at this really low idle. Pick the idle up, set the timing as I wrote on the tape, and disconnect the vacuum advance for the distributor and plug the vacuum port on the carb., then see if the noise is still present. I bet it won't be there.

Tighten up that alternator belt also. It's way too loose.

As far as the windage tray spacing is concerned, I said it before and I'll say it again, the witness marks Joe and his friends saw are the witness marks I made when I first turned the engine over by hand. That is why I shimmed the tray in the first place. The rod bolts were just barely touching which is why the marks were so minimal. THE ROD BOLTS WERE NOT TOUCHING THE WINDAGE TRAY ONCE JOE GOT THE ENGINE! Which is why the noise was still present after they reshimmed it. Don't see why I should have to pay $950 for something that wasn't a problem in the first place. They saw the marks and just assumed they were fresh and causing the noise. I couldn't see the marks clear enough in the pic I was sent, but after seeing the marks in person, they were the same marks I remember making when I first discovered the bolts touching it.

I feel once the timing and idle speed have been dealt with, the knocking noise will be non-existent.

Bingo!

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

I pulled the distributor when I got the engine back from dyno. I checked the busing which was fine and I restabbed the distributor BUT had no way of setting the timing. That is why I wrote on a piece of tape on the carb plate that the timing needs to be reset. It was only close enough to get the engine to start and run.

Next time you do that..... scribe a mark on the distributor base and block. Also note where the rotor button is pointed. Then you can stick the distributor back in "exactly" where it was. No need to reset timing unless you change gasket thickness.

I suspect you knew that but others may not
Clay

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Next time you do that..... scribe a mark on the distributor base and block. Also note where the rotor button is pointed. Then you can stick the distributor back in "exactly" where it was. No need to reset timing unless you change gasket thickness.

I suspect you knew that but others may not
Clay

I marked it all with a sharpy. It can still be a couple degrees off though which could put initial over 20BTDC very easily. Then with vacuum advance on top of it, it could be 30 something degrees very easily.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,

Oh...it doesn't matter to YOU. You're not involved in this. You have chosen to involve yourself as a cheerleader. It certainly matters to me. It doesn't matter to me if you are wonderng why we're still talking about it. In order for guys to make a fair assessment, everything now has to be disclosed. You can just wave off the history and problems with this motor because I'm really not paying attention to much of what you're saying because you're defending...not contributing.

[Formulajones]

If you think it's not contributing then you're definitely not listening.

You don't seem to realize what you're doing isn't helping. You're worried about a distributor bushing from 6 months ago that's already been fixed, instead of dealing with the current issue. Get the timing set!! Lets keep moving forward instead of making 10 more pages of dwelling on the past. All of us will benefit from that.

[Va68goat]

64speed,
Good advice. I just want this motor running right. I've reached out to Paul multiple times and he went ghost. As you can see, he doesn't even comment on this thread unless it's an easy answer to someone's question that diverts the attention away from him. That's ok though, hopefully the timing issue will get addressed today and the knocking noise will be gone. I have plenty of time to address any other concerns.

[Va68goat]

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

I'm saying it's not likely, and there is no way for anyone to know any different one way or the other. It's not fact, it's just speculation. Doesn't matter at this point anyway because that was fixed and done, so there is no need to ponder it. Don't know why we are even still talking about it. That's water under the bridge.

What we are trying to help you with now is the current noise, and I've told you what I believe that sounds like and Paul has told you the timing needs set and why, so lets just get through that first and see what happens.

[AG]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

I'm no expert, but I've built over 30 motors including my race motor and perform all associated tuning. I build rear ends and transmissions also and I know how to use a timing light. I am offering comments based on experience, not from a place of wanting to come across as a person who is knowledgeable.

[Va68goat]

Paul E,
I won't even address that comment.

[JSPONT]

How old is the gas in the car? you said this project has been a while. Fresh gas I hope. For now I would let it idle 1000 rpm or more.
Hwy455 knows what to do, wait for him do not run it anymore until a timing light is on it.

[Va68goat]

torqhead,

We understood that the timing was set which is why it was idling so rough. We will turn the distributor before we start it. We'll check the firing order as well. I need to buy a good timing light. If you can recommend one and send me a message that would be great. I don't want this to become a timing light thread..hahahaha.


"QUICK-SILVER",
Good idea. I'm new to this but that makes sense to me.

Sun Tuned,
From what Paul told me, just the bushing was replaced and the old distributor was used. Paul had me buy another polymer gear to replace the one that was on it previously. This may be better answered by Paul but I don't know how much he is going to respond because he isn't addressing anything that I post...so who knows! I'm assuming he would respond to this specific question because it's an easy answer.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,

Let your ego comprehend this for a minute...I don't want or need your help. I'm asking help from guys that are willing to help me that are not programmed to defend anyone. See...you've become a distraction. If you would like to have a phone conversation, I'll PM you my number. Feel free to call me.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Formulajones,

Let your ego comprehend this for a minute...I don't want or need your help. I'm asking help from guys that are willing to help me that are not programmed to defend anyone. See...you've become a distraction. If you would like to have a phone conversation, I'll PM you my number. Feel free to call me.

The only distraction is your comments taking things off track. So I'll contribute

You should consider yourself lucky you're even getting help here. If the good people here knew how you acted and carried yourself off this forum, I doubt you'd get much help at all.

[Va68goat]

Nothing conclusive as of yet. Need to do more tweaking. Hopefully it will get done this weekend. I don't want to post anything that is not accurate.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

….I pulled the distributor when I got the engine back from dyno. I checked the busing which was fine and I restabbed the distributor BUT had no way of setting the timing. That is why I wrote on a piece of tape on the carb plate that the timing needs to be reset. It was only close enough to get the engine to start and run.

You need to get the idle RPM up and not down at 400-500 RPM. That's just ridiculously slow for an engine with this much cam in it. I only hear the knock at this really low idle. Pick the idle up, set the timing as I wrote on the tape, and disconnect the vacuum advance for the distributor and plug the vacuum port on the carb., then see if the noise is still present. I bet it won't be there.

.

Ok, this makes a lot of sense, there was a discrepancy of whether the timing was set and ready for starting as shipped.

Sorry I haven't posted, biggest reason was I was unable to get in until tonight.

When I visited Thursday, first thing I did was pop the driver's valve cover, turned the engine over by hand, watched the #1 intake open, close, then brought the balancer zero mark up to the 12 on the timing cover. Then popped the distributor cap, and viewed the orientation of the rotor. It was half way between the #1 post and the #8 post, so I would say it was around 15-20 degrees advanced or more.

So I squared the rotor with the #1 post, put the cap back on, removed the IGN 12v wire from the + coil side, and ran a wire directly to the batt. Attached the timing light, and to get it ready to start.

Then I checked the carb, made sure the idle speed screw was about a half a turn or so from where the butterflies were closed, checking the screw I could see where it was lifting off the arm, made it to where it just touched, and added the half or so turn.

Then I went on to the idle mix screws, found all were different, one was like an 1/8 or less from being closed, one was about a turn and a 1/4, the rest were in between. I set them all to 3/4 of a turn.

It ran slightly rough when it initially started, but smoothed out some with a little run time. It was idling a little high, but it idled, revved freely, but still had an occasional miss. Let it reach operating temp, checked water temp and oil psi, it was fully warmed up, @ 185 degrees, had about 45-50 psi at idle, and to me, the knock was much less pronounced, and really felt it was only the typical crower rocker sewing machine type noise.

Joe mentioned it was idling high, so I turned it down some, which later he said after checking was about 1050. (I was not there for that). We shut it off, and for grins, we put the original IGN wire back on the coil +, and started it again. We didn't let it run long that time, but it appeared to not be affected by the original wire. I did notice though that there was a wire spliced into it, and I commented that it should be a dedicated wire, and to consider correcting that.

Since it still had an occasional miss, I suggested if it continued to have that miss, to change out the plugs, and if it still missed, to change out the wires. Also mentioned that it of course will require some additional tuning, idle mix, advance curve, etc, once he has the miss taken care of.

I was satisfied with the results, and felt the original 'knock' had subsided, but due to the high idle, he felt the results were inconclusive. Since we didn't have a tach, I suggested he have it checked before making any other changes, and if it was high, turn the idle speed to 850-950, due to the size of cam.

Joe, maybe for comparison purposes, post the vid of that day? That may help if others can chime in and determine if it was just drowned out or masked by the idle speed.

.

[gtofreek]

Here is a video of a dyno pull. I'll check my video's later when I get home to see if I have one idling. Tried to post this a couple weeks ago but was having trouble with the forum seeing posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiSatCtuA3U

[John Milner]

That idle is way too low. I’d drive the car and work with the timing. Back firing like that also tells me the timing is probably off too. Put some miles on it. I would be willing to bet after it is tuned properly and driven that the noise will go away.

[grivera]

Based on this new info re: dizzy being pulled- make sure you check firing order too.

[torqhead]

Not putting salt in the wound here, but whoever was helping as soon as that motor coughed through the carburetor they should have immediately backed down the timing on it.

Whatever you do, do NOT run that motor any more until someone can verify the plug wires and turn that distributor counter clockwise to retard the timing before starting it again.