[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by GTO68FXSTC98

Can some one explain why people that are selling RA of HO cars for more money than a standard model, but they no longer have the original engine or even a replacement RA or HO engine? Just because it used to be rare, if the motor is gone the extra value is gone, at least for me it would be.

For those that think that a RA or HO car is just another car without the engine...I wonder if you'd feel that way if you were selling it?
In other words, if you had for sale, a '69 RAIV car complete with the exception of the RAIV engine, would you sell it as if it were a 'base' GTO without an engine?

[GTO68FXSTC98]

Well I am certainly not a classic car expert, but it is my opinion that a standard 69 with original drive train would be worth more than a 69 RAIV with a 73 455 in it. I was just curious how other people viewed it. I have owned my 68 orig engine car for 35 years and it's the only classic car I have ever had, so I'm not real in touch with the market. There have been some interesting comments made on this thread that I have never considered, such as the body of a RA car is more rare than a standard, but how much more is it worth...I don't know.

[dataway]

These days it's just the body tag, and vin tag that are worth more Ton of restored RAs out there with non-original riveted tags on them. Maybe they are original and tag was removed for restoration ... but I would consider that a big no-no and would never do it on my car ... if I was buying an RA I'd rather see unrestored little tag sections than obviously drilled out and non-original rivets.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

MJARBLIK- if this car is in OH my dad looked at it and is a potential buyer. Nice, clean car from TX.

I don't know where the car came from. Possibly this will help. I do know the car is Gold exterior, black interior and NO top. Apparently, the owner removed the top for replacement before he passed. So the car has all the hardware and the frame goes up and down, but no top on it. Does that sound like the car?

[1965gp]

Yes that’s the same car for sure. My dad looked at it and really liked it. It came with an extra HO motor. Not sure if you are dealing with the guy that was selling it or if maybe someone bought it since we looked at it.

Nice car but the $$ was a little to high for me to spend on a car that needed motor, Trans (possibly) and brakes. Once it it done it will be a gorgeous car.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by dataway

These days it's just the body tag, and vin tag that are worth more Ton of restored RAs out there with non-original riveted tags on them. Maybe they are original and tag was removed for restoration ... but I would consider that a big no-no and would never do it on my car ... if I was buying an RA I'd rather see unrestored little tag sections than obviously drilled out and non-original rivets.

I can definitely see being concerned about an obviously removed and re-installed tag if I were buying a pedigree car for a high price.. but that said, if I am restoring a car, I'm going to remove the tag so I can properly restore it and the paint underneath it, as it would drive me nuts to have a nicely restored car, but a trashy looking old VIN tag just to prove it was never removed.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by GTO68FXSTC98

Well I am certainly not a classic car expert, but it is my opinion that a standard 69 with original drive train would be worth more than a 69 RAIV with a 73 455 in it. I was just curious how other people viewed it. I have owned my 68 orig engine car for 35 years and it's the only classic car I have ever had, so I'm not real in touch with the market. There have been some interesting comments made on this thread that I have never considered, such as the body of a RA car is more rare than a standard, but how much more is it worth...I don't know.

In 2015, I was offered my choice between a restored 1968 or 1969 hardtop in trade for my project car RA II convertible 4 speed needing total restoration. Both were nice cars, above average weekend cruise in car show quality.

In 2016 I had a serious cash offer just over $30k for same project car. No engine or trans. Did have the original frame with partial VIN and original axle.

I was very tempted with both offers but decided to keep the car for now. Now the car is close to being restored so it looks like I will be keeping it for a while. Mainly because I doubt anyone would be willing to pay my asking price if I were to put it on the market.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by dataway

These days it's just the body tag, and vin tag that are worth more Ton of restored RAs out there with non-original riveted tags on them. Maybe they are original and tag was removed for restoration ... but I would consider that a big no-no and would never do it on my car ... if I was buying an RA I'd rather see unrestored little tag sections than obviously drilled out and non-original rivets.

Agree. I did not remove either VIN or Body tags from my car during restoration. I didn't want any hint of tampering with either one of those items.

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[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by dataway

These days it's just the body tag, and vin tag that are worth more Ton of restored RAs out there with non-original riveted tags on them. Maybe they are original and tag was removed for restoration ... but I would consider that a big no-no and would never do it on my car ... if I was buying an RA I'd rather see unrestored little tag sections than obviously drilled out and non-original rivets.

And that's a big issue these days. If you have a car that has some value and the data plate has valuable information on it showing such (some don't) by all means don't tamper with it. Who cares what it looks like under the tag, no one can see that. Removing that to paint underneath is a mistake because it immediately raises red flags. Even our DMV here is funny about that if they see a dash vin that even has scratches on it (don't ask )

It's a huge problem in the collector car market today with high dollar cars and tampered tags. I see them all the time with non original rivets, and/or fisher body tag numbers that don't quite line up with the vin sequence. 1st gen Z/28's, 69's in particular, are a victim I see most of the time. They fetch quite a bit of money these days, and with reproduction tags now people see dollar signs. The fakes are running rampant. To find an original X-code Z with it's original untampered tags is getting to be a challenge now, original engine or not.

In a nut shell, if the pedigree is there, the car has good bones and generally will hold some value on the market even if the drivetrain isn't born with.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by GTO68FXSTC98

it is my opinion that a standard 69 with original drive train would be worth more than a 69 RAIV with a 73 455 in it. I was just curious how other people viewed it.

With all else being equal, condition, colors and other options, I kind of doubt it.

[muscle_collector]

they are worth more because of what the "collectors" will pay for them and if you don't get why, then no explanation will help because you wont buy it. ive seen it over and over from people that have a run of the mill car get butt hurt because their car wont bring the big money and attention and people will walk right past theirs at a show to look at a ram air or ho car that isn't near as nice condition. simple supply and demand.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

With all else being equal, condition, colors and other options, I kind of doubt it.

To me, that post makes it seem like the OP has an angle he's trying to play...

obviously there are variables in play, but the post made me skeptical.

[RocktimusPryme]

I would say equal condition there is zero chance a base survivor 69 is worth more than a 69 Trans Am that lost its drivetrain.

The 69 Trans Am is one of those cars that even casual enthusiast know is rare. There are plenty of cars that are pretty low in numbers, that serious enthusiasts know. Say something like a 1969 Mercury Cyclone, your casual fan probably doesn't really know. But you say 1969 Trans Am........everybody says "Didn't they only make like 1000 of those?" That crossover appeal drives up the value.

Even if you only chased down a real RAIV motor, with wrong date codes and all, to put back in it I would think its value increases dramatically. So again, just based on value potential the Trans Ams floor is going to be higher than the base cars ceiling.

[Bruce Meyer]

Originally Posted by dataway

I've always been of the opinion that if there is no original engine, or a genuine service replacement, then the car becomes a "replica". Since the primary component of an RA option was the engine.

However one could also argue, that in the case of the RA or HO, that were often raced, driven hard, and ordered specifically for that reason ... that the engine is a "maintenance" part or "consumable". Which would also be a valid point. And as long as the engine is replaced with another with the proper numbers and parts ... it's as valid as any other replaced option ... like a new convertible top etc.

That's right and if Your car doesn't have the original air in its tires, it too is a replica.

[dstryr]

all those lightweight cars without original engines are junk. Round them up and make pop cans out of them.

[GTO68FXSTC98]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

To me, that post makes it seem like the OP has an angle he's trying to play...

obviously there are variables in play, but the post made me skeptical.

You noticed the word opinion in there didn't you? I don't have an angle, not trying to say my car is worth more than I think it is. There is no angle here, it was just an f..ning question because I was curious what other people think. Jesus.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by GTO68FXSTC98

Well I am certainly not a classic car expert, but it is my opinion that a standard 69 with original drive train would be worth more than a 69 RAIV with a 73 455 in it.

No...


No it would not.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

Yes that’s the same car for sure. My dad looked at it and really liked it. It came with an extra HO motor. Not sure if you are dealing with the guy that was selling it or if maybe someone bought it since we looked at it.

Nice car but the $$ was a little to high for me to spend on a car that needed motor, Trans (possibly) and brakes. Once it it done it will be a gorgeous car.

I am not sure where I fit in the pipeline at this point. When there is a weird Pontiac floating around Dayton, OH, somehow I find out about it. So this was a friend of friend of friend deal. I am glad to hear the car is nice though since I haven't seen it in person yet. Sounds like the current owners plan is for me to build and install the "extra correct engine" in the car and get it running. From a value standpoint, having a correct 68 HO engine in the car and running would be much higher than selling the car with some generic Pontiac engine under the hood and the correct 68 HO engine on the floor to go with the car? Would you agree that is correct? Or do you think a potential buyer would rather build and install the correct HO engine themselves? I really couldn't tell the owner the answer to that question with certainty.

[1965gp]

Mgarblik- I think with a correct HO motor running and driving that car will be worth a lot more. My opinion on the car was that the asking price with an additional $10k+ for a motor, Trans, top and brakes put me in the range of buying one that was already a really nice driver with fewer variables. If the price had been a little lower I think we would have bought it. Another factor is that we would have had to sell something or get a storage unit to be able to store it indoors.

I would think that most buyers would prefer to have a correct, stock-ish motor in the car and wouldn’t build anything other than the motor that was available with the car. If you can build the motor economically then it probably makes sense to build and install it.

If you work on Pontiacs in the Dayton area we need to talk. I have a stash of cars in that area that could use some work.

[dataway]

If anyone but the original owner has pooted in the driver seat, it's not original