[ponjohn]

Another head with great potential at a VERY effective price point and the chamber is too small, volume is not right, aluminum is not shiny enough.....this is crazy.

THIS is why AFR or any of the other cylinder head companies will run away from making a Pontiac head.

[Mike Davis]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Another head with great potential at a VERY effective price point and the chamber is too small, volume is not right, aluminum is not shiny enough.....this is crazy.

THIS is why AFR or any of the other cylinder head companies will run away from making a Pontiac head.

Funny you say that,
I mentioned it to a couple of MFG's at PRI one year that we had a CNC booth there. They said the exact same thing. One guy said--"Have you ever looked at the Forums?... Those guys are stuck on factory cams, 10" converters and Dual plane intakes."

Most said they check the forums to see what peoples wants and needs are. A few said Pontiac people are cheap and have a 70's mindset.
They will pay $500 for a certain date code distributor but won't pay $750 for a cam and lifters.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

Funny you say that,
I mentioned it to a couple of MFG's at PRI one year that we had a CNC booth there. They said the exact same thing. One guy said--"Have you ever looked at the Forums?... Those guys are stuck on factory cams, 10" converters and Dual plane intakes."

Most said they check the forums to see what peoples wants and needs are. A few said Pontiac people are cheap and have a 70's mindset.
They will pay $500 for a certain date code distributor but won't pay $750 for a cam and lifters.

Agree Pontiac guys are cheap!!

[mgarblik]

While the above two posts are true, (I have heard these comments myself), that's not the primary reason AFR, DART, WORLD, and many other vendors won't "mess" with "Pontiac" stuff. It's more of a bland numbers game as the reason. These manufacturers have a finite manufacturing capacity. It's much easier to mass market engine parts that have a huge pool of potential buyers than a tiny niche market like Pontiac, Olds, Buick, FE Ford, AMC and so forth. They can sell more of the latest wizz bang LS head than all the ones I mentioned combined and think of how much easier the production is for a single design. I try to commend virtually every part brought to market for a Pontiac V-8. Just because I may not use it personally, or I don't like certain features, that doesn't mean it won't be great for someone else.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

Funny you say that,
I mentioned it to a couple of MFG's at PRI one year that we had a CNC booth there. They said the exact same thing. One guy said--"Have you ever looked at the Forums?... Those guys are stuck on factory cams, 10" converters and Dual plane intakes."

Most said they check the forums to see what peoples wants and needs are. A few said Pontiac people are cheap and have a 70's mindset.
They will pay $500 for a certain date code distributor but won't pay $750 for a cam and lifters.

Don't forget a Q-jet carb and if they do fork out the dough for a roller cam there is only one grind they are interested in.

[ponjohn]

One thing that is a huge benefit today is design time. You can do a proof of concept in 3d printing - THIS has to reduce the cost

Can Dart etc bundle all the other makes into one production run to at least try and make up the volume?

[P@blo]

Lap it up these heads are taking away your American jobs

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Lap it up these heads are taking away your American jobs

Balderdash!! The heads are finished here in the U.S. Is reading comprehension NOT on your list of accomplishments?

[dmac]

Originally Posted by shaker455

I can help you boys in that dept if you want to go that route

How?

[dmac]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

If you want to run small chamber heads on a 455 all you have to do it run dished pistons, I've been using small chamber heads on 455s with dished pistons since the 70s. .

Then the job becomes more than a simple head swap. Dished pistons, new rings, more shop costs adds up for the average American making $30k per year. You may as well pay a couple hundred more and just buy KREs with the bigger chamber. Not having the bigger chamber cuts the potential market in half- not good for a company trying to break into the market.

[JLMounce]

I believe it's been mentioned that a mid 80cc chamber as well as cnc porting options will be coming for those heads?

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by dmac

Then the job becomes more than a simple head swap. Dished pistons, new rings, more shop costs adds up for the average American making $30k per year. You may as well pay a couple hundred more and just buy KREs with the bigger chamber. Not having the bigger chamber cuts the potential market in half- not good for a company trying to break into the market.

I was building the engine from scratch, so dished pistons were the same as flat tops. The gist of the post is that it can be done if you want to run the cheaper, small chamber heads on a 455. Is it the cheapest route to aluminum round port heads, probably not, unless your building the engine in question as you are installing the aluminum heads, it can be done though. The post proceeding my post left the conclusion that there was no way to get to the end result of having a 455 with small chamber heads on it, my post said that the dished pistons were the way to solve the problem.

I'm thinking someone isn't just swapping heads onto a mostly stock short block and trying to run it as hard as they want to without something substantial under it. I'm more used to running on a dirt track, and if you just did a head swap on one of those engines without everything being top notch in the short block, in one night of racing you'd be picking the parts up off the track. I've tried it more than once, and that's the result. Cast pistons and tight clearances won't last when subjected to added strain, (more than squealing tires leaving the Dairy Queen) and higher power.

You may, or may not know, that Pontiac was more selective about parts and clearances when assembling round port engines at the factory. They weren't built the same as a station wagon 455 was, for a reason. The RA IV and the 455 SD also got forged pistons, the SD 455 with the long stroke also got forged rods, again for a reason.

The theory is that if they had the 87 cc heads available, you could pull a head swap and just not worry about the engine self destructing, until it happened...... Did the $30,000 a year guy save any money in the end?

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by shaker455

I can help you boys in that dept if you want to go that route

I think that's the next step after the car is back from paint. Aluminum heads and a roller cam!

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I was building the engine from scratch, so dished pistons were the same as flat tops. The gist of the post is that it can be done if you want to run the cheaper, small chamber heads on a 455. Is it the cheapest route to aluminum round port heads, probably not, unless your building the engine in question as you are installing the aluminum heads, it can be done though. The post proceeding my post left the conclusion that there was no way to get to the end result of having a 455 with small chamber heads on it, my post said that the dished pistons were the way to solve the problem.

I'm thinking someone isn't just swapping heads onto a mostly stock short block and trying to run it as hard as they want to without something substantial under it. I'm more used to running on a dirt track, and if you just did a head swap on one of those engines without everything being top notch in the short block, in one night of racing you'd be picking the parts up off the track. I've tried it more than once, and that's the result. Cast pistons and tight clearances won't last when subjected to added strain, (more than squealing tires leaving the Dairy Queen) and higher power.

You may, or may not know, that Pontiac was more selective about parts and clearances when assembling round port engines at the factory. They weren't built the same as a station wagon 455 was, for a reason. The RA IV and the 455 SD also got forged pistons, the SD 455 with the long stroke also got forged rods, again for a reason.

The theory is that if they had the 87 cc heads available, you could pull a head swap and just not worry about the engine self destructing, until it happened...... Did the $30,000 a year guy save any money in the end?

Lol, I did exactly that. Threw a roller cam and some KRE D ports on my 455. Granted, it's not a bone stock build, it was built by a previous owner, but retains the factory rods and crank with TRW slugs.

I've been beating the crap out of this thing for a while now. I think this situation is probably a bit more prevalent though than having a bone stock 455 you yanked out of a wagon.

Dish pistons are certainly an option if you're building at the time of purchase. These speedmaster heads wouldn't have worked for me because I needed more chamber size.

[tom s]

Im planning on a new street build and would like to try a set but refuse to do headers.If the long branch round ports become avail again I would try a set.Tom

[77 TRASHCAN]

Tom, didn’t you have headers built for you latest project? Did that not work out?

[JC455]

Tom S-
I spoke w/ RARE earlier this year about Round Port Long Branch manifolds. He said they should be back in production around the first of the year.

[tom s]

Paul has said that for awhile,going to buy a set to have on hand if the need comes up.Tom

[tom s]

RA V headers wont work with D port or round port heads!AND I HATE headers!Tom

[goatman1970]

just don't get the complete cheap Chinese heads from Summit or JEGS, they put cheap Chinese parts on them, buddy bought a complete set of aluminum heads for his SBC and broke a stud fairly quickly, just get the bare heads and go from there