[Formulajones]

"Better" is such a relative term. It really depends on the individual. What is for certain though is that points are very simple, with less to go wrong, and it doesn't get more simplistic than that.

In that sense, it is better, in terms of simplicity. Not for everyone these days, especially the youngins' that didn't grow up with them.

As long as you have a good distributor to start with, (and I haven't had a problem finding them) they are very trouble free.

As far as the capacitive boxes go, they have good and bad points. I've found that using them on our daily drivers up here at 5000 feet elevation has helped to keep the plugs cleaner when putting around town, since I tend to keep the carbs a little on the fat side for the lower elevation changes we see.
The rev limiter is just a nice bonus.
Otherwise, I probably wouldn't run one.

There are a lot of different scenarios out there that dictate what the end user sees as beneficial. So I don't knock it one way or the other. Hell I've got 2 cars here with full electronic complete Billet MSD setups in them and they work just fine too. So I'm not bias either way, I just prefer not to have that stuff on our daily drivers and much rather prefer the "simplicity" of points for something we have to rely on day in and day out.

[TCSGTO]

+4 on the points, just make sure if you go that route to get a quality set. NAPA still stocks good points as well as ACCEL. They may very well be the same parts in different packaging.
If you can find NOS GM grab them.

Stay away from parts store junk, the rubbing blocks are made out of butter.

[scott70]

Well for now I'm going to try the 8528 msd dist and we'll see how it goes. I don't use any other type of ignition box. I've still got the original dist that was in the gto if I ever want to go back.

[ta6point6]

Originally Posted by scott70

I currently run a dui small body I bought new probably 4 years ago. Ever since I put it in it won't hold timing. I set my timing with a timing gun that has a dial for total. You can tighten the clamp all you want but for some reason it can creep advance or retard after you run it hard a few times. Just did it again,,,they set total at 32 on the dyno...once in the car I confirmed 32 total with my gun. Git a few miles on it now and it crept back to 30. I let it cool off over night and checked it again this morning...30 total. Now I noticed one of the wires that goes from the external module into the bottom of the dist has some burn spots on the insulation. The only way I can see that happening is if the wire leaned on the module which might of been hot. Or it got hot from the inside. Look at the yellow wire,,there's like 3 burn spots.I'm just kinda tired of it.

Is your distributor/coil hooked up to a 12volt source and not the ballast wire? I could be wrong but most aftermarket HEI distributors should be hooked to a keyed 12 volt ignition wire and not the OE ballast wire that came with a points vehicle.

[scott70]

Yes,,,,no ballast or ballast wire.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by scott70

Well for now I'm going to try the 8528 msd dist and we'll see how it goes. I don't use any other type of ignition box. I've still got the original dist that was in the gto if I ever want to go back.

That MSD will probably treat you just fine. The advance mechanisms are very easy to work with and dial in the curve you're looking for. I like the replaceable bushings for the advance stop.

Just an FYI, you can change that cap to the points style with female connectors if you wish, and look more stockish.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Although I don't mind points for some cars, I think from a performance and reliability perspective, electronic ignition is the only way to go. To think a 50 year old distributor, with poor production tolerances (in today's standards), and electromechanical triggering, is going to be 'better' than running something new is just pure denial.

With that said, I don't agree with the 'technology' of using 'multiple' sparks to light a cyl, it's like a match, do you keep striking it once it ignites? But, I'm not going there. It is unfortunately about the only way to be able to run certain types of distributors, so, a necessary evil.

Run what you want, run what you understand, it's your' car. Personally, it's very rare I would recommend someone go 'back' (wards) to points.

And we haven't even touched on weights, springs, and vacuum cans. Yeah, those are precise and flexible.


.

I never, ever have any ignition related problems. Yes, its better for the vast majority of Pontiacs. Its not 'backwards" in any way. Most of the time simple is better. Complicate things and many more things to go wrong.
Toyota, just about the most reliable manufacturer out there ran points triggered CD ignition for years. Without multiple sparks. Points went 100K.
As long as you are not running over 8000 RPM and - 1% of Pontiacs are, points with CD are the way to go.
The old iron distributors for whatever reason wear very well. Not seen a worn out one yet.
There is no denial involved. I have done back to back tests at the track with the exact same curve on 2 distributors set up on the same machine. One points, one electronic, both with 7-AL2. Same ET,MPH. Sold electronic stuff.
I have come to the conclusion there is no extra power to be had in any ignition system, points, electronic other than a crank trigger which has been shown to gain 7 HP on a dyno. (Ace at PPR did the test)
Run what you want. IMO simple is best.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That MSD will probably treat you just fine. The advance mechanisms are very easy to work with and dial in the curve you're looking for. I like the replaceable bushings for the advance stop.

Just an FYI, you can change that cap to the points style with female connectors if you wish, and look more stockish.

I did not realize they had a female cap for that dist. I already ordered some black 8.5 mm FAST wires,,,255-0083 and since that dist had a red cap i ordered a black cap..I guess I could have painted it. I do like the stock look but it will be fine. Itll look better than a big ole hei back there.

[scott70]

Ive been reading the 8528 instructions online. I believe my dui dist has about 18 initial and 32 total...all in at 2700 rpms
Anybody have a spring/stop bushing set up that would be good for my car with the msd
? Im assuming to take out the blue stop bushing and use the black one.Still want 32 total and I guess I should be atleast 14 initial? I do like the rev limiter,,,,i could of used that at the track the other night when I pulled the shifter out of 1st at WOT. I think I caught it quick but Im sure it revved higher than I like. Anytime in the past when I was messing with timing curves I would just put the springs in I wanted,,,,like it totaled at 2800 rpms and I would set it at 32 total. I never payed attention to initial.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by scott70

Ive been reading the 8528 instructions online. I believe my dui dist has about 18 initial and 32 total...all in at 2700 rpms
Anybody have a spring/stop bushing set up that would be good for my car with the msd
? Still want 32 total and I guess I should be atleast 14 initial? I do like the rev limiter,,,,i could of used that at the track the other night when I pulled the shifter out of 1st at WOT. I think I caught it quick but Im sure it revved higher than I like. Anytime in the past when I was messing with timing curves I would just put the springs in I wanted,,,,like it totaled at 2800 rpms and I would set it at 32 total. I never payed attention to initial.

For more initial and less total (limiting centrifugal) you'll use the black bushing. I don't have the chart in front of me but you'll have about 5 other choices. If looking for 14 initial and 32 total just use the bushing listed as limiting the breaker plate to 18 degrees or so.

If I remember right you'll probably want to try the next bushing down and I think it's blue.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

For more initial and less total (limiting centrifugal) you'll use the black bushing. I don't have the chart in front of me but you'll have about 5 other choices. If looking for 14 initial and 32 total just use the bushing listed as limiting the breaker plate to 18 degrees or so.

If I remember right you'll probably want to try the next bushing down and I think it's blue.

In the instructions I think it said comes with the blue installed which is 21 degrees. Black is like 18. Ive really never messed with stop bushings and what they do,,,,kinda learning as I go.
I found the paperwork that came with the dui dist back when i bought it. It says 22 degees at 2600 rpms. I read 18 initial at 800 rpms and 32 total which doesnt add up if Im reading it right. Im assuming that if I lowered the idle more the initial would lower too.

[AG]

Use the black bushing and test what it delivers for mechanical and set your initial to get 32 total.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

As long as you have a good distributor to start with, (and I haven't had a problem finding them) they are very trouble free.

I think this is part of the problem. Most of us dont know what to look for in an old distributor (myself included). You can send it away to be rebuilt, but then you are in new off the shelf MSD territory.

Same with triggering a CD box with a points distributor. Sounds great, but I wouldnt know if the points distributor was too worn to trigger correctly. That uncertainty is probably what drives people to new parts and just dealing with possibly chinesium failures.

Also, from personal experience with my old Willys Jeep. It can be hard to get good points now.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by scott70

In the instructions I think it said comes with the blue installed which is 21 degrees. Black is like 18. Ive really never messed with stop bushings and what they do,,,,kinda learning as I go.
I found the paperwork that came with the dui dist back when i bought it. It says 22 degees at 2600 rpms. I read 18 initial at 800 rpms and 32 total which doesnt add up if Im reading it right. Im assuming that if I lowered the idle more the initial would lower too.

I usually start with the black, and most times leave it there, then I set the total all in where I want it (32 in your case) and let the initial timing at idle fall where it may. That will probably end up around 18 initial or there about, which is more than you asked for.

It sounds like what I figured though, the blue bushing would likely get you close to where you were as far as your old timing figures go. Should put you somewhere closer to 15 initial if you set your total at 32 degrees.

[Formula jg]

I switched to Progression Ignition HEI last fall and have to say it’s probably the best money ever spent on an engine component. Rock steady timing based on MAP and RPM that’s infinitely adjustable (even on the fly). I set up a cold start table and no longer need to baby sit the throttle as it warms up. I also set it up to increase timing by 3 degrees when shifting from Park to Drive so the RPM transition is smooth as silk. All components are high quality and install was pretty much drop in plug and play and no I don’t have any affiliation with this company.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by Formula jg

I switched to Progression Ignition HEI last fall and have to say it’s probably the best money ever spent on an engine component. Rock steady timing based on MAP and RPM that’s infinitely adjustable (even on the fly). I set up a cold start table and no longer need to baby sit the throttle as it warms up. I also set it up to increase timing by 3 degrees when shifting from Park to Drive so the RPM transition is smooth as silk. All components are high quality and install was pretty much drop in plug and play and no I don’t have any affiliation with this company.

I was actually reading and watching youtube on that dist prior to buying the msd.. Seems like it would a good,tunable dist. It seemed a little over my head on the tuning and the msd seemed more to what Im used to so I passed.

[LeighP]

I currently run a Pertronix converted points distributor on my 428 with a Crane Fireball ignition box. That said, I’m beginning to have an issue of occasionally dropping a cylinder or two. I have a Performance Distributors DUI small cap HEI (called their Tri-Power HEI) that I’m going to swap in.
I cannot give any recommendations for MSD products as I had a dead “ready to run” distributor right out of the box on my 71 project.....not impressed.

[Formulajones]

Electronic stuff is like that. You can buy 10 of them and have one that's just dead out of the box. The rest are fine. That's just the name of the game with all these aftermarket ignition products. I don't even feel brand has much to do with it anymore.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by LeighP

I currently run a Pertronix converted points distributor on my 428 with a Crane Fireball ignition box. That said, I’m beginning to have an issue of occasionally dropping a cylinder or two. I have a Performance Distributors DUI small cap HEI (called their Tri-Power HEI) that I’m going to swap in.
I cannot give any recommendations for MSD products as I had a dead “ready to run” distributor right out of the box on my 71 project.....not impressed.

Dui small body hei tri power is the one I've been having a problem since "new". I'm sure yours will be fine though.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I don't even feel brand has much to do with it anymore.

Because one or two companies actually make the product that fifty other companies buy in bulk and then resell in custom-printed boxes under fifty different brand names.

"Reboxing" was ALWAYS an issue in the auto-parts world; but it's unbelievably bad now.

What isn't reboxed from legitimate sources, is outright counterfeited. I ended up buying phony AC-Delco spark plugs from a crooked, lying vendor in Texas, selling on Amazon. Sent photos to GM, they confirmed that the parts were not "authentic". Amazon seller cried and denied, and demanded to handle the situation by telephone--so that I have no record of what's said. Wouldn't help me by e-mail (written correspondence that I have a record of.). Got my money back from Amazon, but the seller left bad feedback for me, because I complained about being cheated.