[Verdoro 68]

While everyone was watching football, I spent my Thanksgiving in the garage. It took me a little bit of trial and error but I ended up getting the cooler mounted. The Derale 33602 (9.75 in. x 6.25in) is a little on the small side, but it was as big as I could fit.

I originally tried to mount the cooler closer to the center of the car near the hood latch/horn bracket with the ports facing the passenger side.There wasn't enough room to run the lines with the headlight vacuum canister in the way, so I flipped the cooler so the ports faced the driver side and mounted it favoring the passenger side. I made little L-shaped brackets out of stock steel to mount it to the underside of the core support. I bent new steel lines that run between the a/c drier and core support and run along the bottom of the a/c condenser.

I thought I could bend the tubes in one piece with no splices, but I couldn't fish the lines around the radiator so I ended up splicing them under the condenser. I cut the factory return line right before I bent up to the radiator and spliced in my new return line from the cooler similar to how it's shown in the Olds diagram above. It looks a little clunky to me, so I may go back and see if I can refine it. The length of tube I needed for the clamp on the flaring tool limited how short I could make my tubes after the bends. I also probably need a couple tubing mounts to secure the new trans lines.

I discovered that I had my cooling lines installed backwards on the trans. The top line on the radiator was going to the bottom port on the trans and vice versa. That might have been part of my problem, so I fixed those when I put everything back together.

Anyway, here's where I ended up.

[grivera]

Nice job - looks good - onto the next project!

[kingbuzzo]

Wow are you a plumber by-trade...looks perfect

[Verdoro 68]

Definitely not a plumber. I bought a coil of 25 feet of tubing from Summit and I have about two feet left. Like I said - A LOT of trial and error.

[b-man]

Nice work.

Playing with hard lines can be quite a challenge and you did a great job of it.

[blueghoast]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

While everyone was watching football, I spent my Thanksgiving in the garage. It took me a little bit of trial and error but I ended up getting the cooler mounted. The Derale 33602 (9.75 in. x 6.25in) is a little on the small side, but it was as big as I could fit.

I originally tried to mount the cooler closer to the center of the car near the hood latch/horn bracket with the ports facing the passenger side.There wasn't enough room to run the lines with the headlight vacuum canister in the way, so I flipped the cooler so the ports faced the driver side and mounted it favoring the passenger side. I made little L-shaped brackets out of stock steel to mount it to the underside of the core support. I bent new steel lines that run between the a/c drier and core support and run along the bottom of the a/c condenser.

I thought I could bend the tubes in one piece with no splices, but I couldn't fish the lines around the radiator so I ended up splicing them under the condenser. I cut the factory return line right before I bent up to the radiator and spliced in my new return line from the cooler similar to how it's shown in the Olds diagram above. It looks a little clunky to me, so I may go back and see if I can refine it. The length of tube I needed for the clamp on the flaring tool limited how short I could make my tubes after the bends. I also probably need a couple tubing mounts to secure the new trans lines.

I discovered that I had my cooling lines installed backwards on the trans. The top line on the radiator was going to the bottom port on the trans and vice versa. That might have been part of my problem, so I fixed those when I put everything back together.

Anyway, here's where I ended up.

WOW Nice installation.

GT

[SD455DJ]

Wow! Very nice plumbing work Ken!

Dennis

[Steve C.]

Old, but a good thread. Nice pictures and installation.

After reading it I'll revive a subject often not touched upon, the operating temperature...

I noted this information from B&M in the link from post #4:

"Monitor the transmission fluid as the fluid leaves the cooler and returns to the transmission. Monitoring the returning fluid will give you an accurate indication of how efficient your cooling system is functioning.
A good operating temperature of an automatic transmission is 160º to 200º F as the fluid exits the cooler."

And also noted from B&M was the optional use of a cast deep oil pan for the transmission that can increase capacity allowing more cooling ability.

And then from this source, they state 150 degrees is considered the 'minimum' ideal operating temperature.

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...erating%20temp.

Rhetorical questions and something to consider...

How many actually install a transmission oil temperature gauge and monitor it ? Can you use a trans oil cooler that is too big ?

I've used a larger size Earl's stacked plate cooler before (company link below) and considered it a bit large for my application, but also noting I ran an aftermarket deep pan with the extra capacity.
Often the transmission oil temp only ran a tad over 100 degrees when cruising around on the open road. The temp sending unit was located in the pan on the transmission.

https://www.earls.com.au/product-cat...oling-systems/



.

[Joe-Touring]

The temp question is a good one, I’ve always thought it makes sense to have a thermostat setup for all your coolers. Same reason the coolant system in your engine has one: faster warm up, getting to optimum temperature.

ATF seems to be but more forgiving, but I’d assume that the engineers designed the transmissions to function at a temp close to engine temp. The viscosity of ATF is of course quite a bit different at 50* compared to 100* compared to 200*.

I plan on using one of these for my C20:
https://www.haydenauto.com/en/produc...y-pass-coolers

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

I noted this information from B&M in the link from post #4:

"Monitor the transmission fluid as the fluid leaves the cooler and returns to the transmission. Monitoring the returning fluid will give you an accurate indication of how efficient your cooling system is functioning.
A good operating temperature of an automatic transmission is 160º to 200º F as the fluid exits the cooler."

Not what I'd expect. I'm not in a position to challenge B&M, but I'd have expected 170--200 in the pan, not in the cooler return-tube. Many modern cars have transmission temperature sensors on the valve body in the pan; the info is available to view using a scan tool, including cheap "dongles" that plug into the OBD2 connector.

It is entirely possible to over-cool the fluid with a too-huge transmission cooler.

Keep in mind that these vehicles had a maximum load rating--vehicle weight plus towing weight--and GM was prepared to warranty the transmissions with--in most cases--only the in-radiator trans cooler. Even if GM was playing the odds, and going cheap on transmission cooling, I see guys adding monster transmission coolers to daily-drivers and thinking they're doing some good when in fact the transmission fluid never gets to operating temperature.

[Steve C.]

Where the temperature is being measured. Excellent subject.

From the internet, this is stated. But no mention of in the pan or not.....

"In a perfect world you want to keep auto trans fluid temperatures between 175 and 200 degrees F, although I wouldn’t panic with a real-world 150- to 225- degree range.
You don’t want to lean on the trans below 150 degrees, any more than you’d lead-foot a cold engine."

Similar but here it states where the temperature is measured:

TRANSMISSION TEMPERATURE MEASURED AT OIL PAN OR SUMP:

150° F= The minimum operating temperature. Note: It is possible in low ambient temperatures to overcool the transmission with auxiliary oil to air coolers.
Oil to water coolers in standard factory radiators will normally not overcool a transmission.

175-200° F= Normal pan oil temperature operating range.

275° F= Maximum allowable oil pan temperature for short durations during long hill climbs.




.

[chiphead]

Highest temp measurement location is the line out to the cooler. That is taking the oil coming out of the converter and sending it to the cooler. When I had a gauge on that line, the hottest I ever saw was about 225F. TH350 with 10" continental, 3.90 gears in 100F ambient summer day while driving in town. It would get hotter in town than it would during a outing at the dragstrip.

[59safaricat]

Installed a transmission cooler on my 1995 Lincoln Towncar 12 years ago (other 2 vehicles are manual transmissions) that came with a fan. Totally bypassed the radiator and have an adjustable fan thermostat in place. 99% of the time, the fluid never gets hotter than 140F. Zero problems. I only had the fan come on twice when I was stuck in traffic for hours with outside ambient temps over 100F with the a/c running. I think I have the fan set to 160F.

I noticed an immediate and significant change on how the transmission shifts with the cooler in place. When the engine would get up to normal operating temp, the fluid would hoover around around 205f and the trans would shift rougher from the fluid thinning out due to heat. With the cooler in place, the trans always shifts butter smooth regardless. At 30K miles, the fluid still looked brand new which was not the case before the cooler.

Installing the cooler also relived the engine of additional heat. If I'm going down a hill, I can watch the engine temperature drop down, even during the summer. Before the cooler, that never happened, even going down the Donner Pass in the middle of winter.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Three ways to plumb a second trans cooler.
1. After the in-radiator cooler. Fluid is the coolest going back to the trans--which is not an advantage in winter.
2. Before the in-radiator cooler. Fluid is cooled in the summer, "heated" in the winter. Probably best in colder climates.
3. Tee'd, so that some fluid goes to one, and some fluid goes to the other. Reduces pressure in the cooler circuit.

Is there a downside to routing the lines like option #3 ?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by grivera

Is there a downside to routing the lines like option #3 ?

Not my first choice in winter. Otherwise, no, not really.

[grivera]

Maryland gets all four seasons so it seems each configuration has its plus/minus. I drive my cars spring/summer/fall - so 90 degrees to 40 degrees temps

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

True. It's a second to brake fluid as my least favorite automotive fluid.

I was doing a little research yesterday and saw that Oldsmobile offered a factory trans cooler on some W cars. I don't think the pre-bent lines will transfer over to a Pontiac because of the differences in core supports, but I think I'll follow this template for and install and bend my own lines. I think I can run them under the a/c drier and not have to drill any holes.

Very cool! Heheh! I bet InLine Tube would bend those for you, they just did a deep resto on a W-43. But guess you already are going in another direction.

.

[Verdoro 68]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Very cool! Heheh! I bet InLine Tube would bend those for you, they just did a deep resto on a W-43. But guess you already are going in another direction.

.

They do sell these lines pre-bent with a cooler, but the Olds core supports and front end structure are different enough that I don’t believe it would work on our cars. It’s also pretty expensive for what it is. There are much better coolers available for less. It did serve as a nice template for my install though.

https://www.inlinetube.com/products/inl10428

[turbo69bird]

My trans guy is dynamic racing trans in north Branford Ct
They build amazing transmissions. ( can’t say tranny anymore has a whole new meaning these days) but they want me to keep that thing cool as I can. I actually pulled it apart 2 times after about a year use at the track 140 track passes. That year. It was so clean and so new looking inside no heat marks anywhere we put every piece back in as it was and been running it all this time. I had been worried about heat because of how that gauge was reading it’ll bury that gauge , but the converter temps tell a different story but they said you couldn’t keep it cool enough.

[grivera]

So they’d be ok with the temps being below 150- assuming you could get it that low?