[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by gtorich

Paul, i wrestled with that deal, i always feel like just because my motor didnt come out right, doesnt mean someone else will have the same issue.

Funny Wade at BOP has his heads done there.

Advanced engine concepts................Green Lake , Wisc

I don't blame you. Normally I'd never suggest it. They lost me when they blamed the problem on it being a Pontiac. I don't care one bit about their disdain for Pontiacs, it's their truly ignorant statement, they think justified the issue.


Hopefully they're better at cylinder heads.... For Wades sake.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I don't blame you. Normally I'd never suggest it. They lost me when they blamed the problem on it being a Pontiac. I don't care one bit about their disdain for Pontiacs, it's their truly ignorant statement, they think justified the issue.


Hopefully they're better at cylinder heads.... For Wades sake.

You are exactly right!! I work with all kinds of engines at the school. I happen to like the ancient Pontiac V-8 as a favorite. That means absolutely nothing when it comes to helping students diagnose, measure, machine and assemble their engines. I have a student who loves his M54 BMW engine as much as I like Pontiacs. That engine is a complete pile of crap, one of the worst BMW engines ever. It gets treated the same as any other engine in the class, no exceptions, no excuses. I have a 409 Chevy in process, a stupid design in many ways, difficult to machine with it's ridiculous 75 degree cylinder banks and moving combustion chamber. Makes no difference. We are doing everything in our power to make it as good as possible. From a Kohler K161 engine in a Cub Cadet to the Porsche engine going into a Boxter, they are all respected, carefully machined and put back together. Pontiac engines have several weak areas that we all know about and work through and improve. Under 700-800 HP, none of these issues effect the basic operating life of these engines. There is something wrong with this particular 455. I don't know what it is at this point. Obviously, it's not a happy camper and the bearings are telling a story. The oil leak/rear main seal is collateral damage IMO. It can be extremely frustrating for the engine owner and the shop. But blaming the manufacturer is a cop out.

[Sirrotica]

With a name like Advanced Concepts they should be able to nail down an engine malfunction, and not blame it on the architecture of the OEM engineering.

My 428 ran in a dirt track environment for 3 seasons right around 6 grand twice every lap, at the end of 3 race seasons the bearings looked much better than those bearings do.

I paid a local speedshop to do the crank and block back in the 70s. It appears they got my engine closer than these bozos did. The guy that did the machining was a first gen Hemi lover, and I had to suffer all the digs about Pontiacs being boat anchors, but I got honest, quality machine work for the money I paid. He did check the line bore and said that it was fine as it came from the factory, so he could have done it anyway, and made some more money from me, but elected not to.

I assembled the engine myself and the "boat anchor" ran just fine with every other brand out there racing.

I have heard over the years other Stratostreak owners tell about machine shops that got inferior engine machine work and assembly due to the fact that the assemblers/machinists didn't care about a lowly Pontiac owners choice of powerplants. They still spent their money, and should have gotten the same treatment as other marques did.

I designed this Pontiaddict T shirt, this is backside of this T shirt with the listing of some commonly heard slights I've heard over the years, see if you've heard any of the wives tales from others.



It surely gets old, but kicking their ass with a Pontiac Stratostreak powerplant usually leaves them either very quiet, or stammering excuses of why their choice lost.............LMAO

[Skip Fix]

" I have a 409 Chevy in process, a stupid design in many ways, difficult to machine with it's ridiculous 75 degree cylinder banks and moving combustion chamber. " Hey now! But I agree a weird design. Heavy ass iron heads! I think I heard Ford had a similar series of motors designed with the chamber in the block.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

" I have a 409 Chevy in process, a stupid design in many ways, difficult to machine with it's ridiculous 75 degree cylinder banks and moving combustion chamber. " Hey now! But I agree a weird design. Heavy ass iron heads! I think I heard Ford had a similar series of motors designed with the chamber in the block.

Yes, the MEL engine. Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln. John Kasse won Engine Masters one year with that engine! So smart people can get amazing results with 409's, MEL's and other unusual engines. A Pontiac V-8 is about as basic as it gets. Not to say it doesn't have some little weird differences from others of the era.

[Skip Fix]

I love my Pontiacs too! And easier to work on and find parts!

And Brad I have a Pontiac powered Camaro

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Piss poor ring choice ..... You should post their name to save another Pontiac guy the misery of dealing with them.

Whats the deal with those rings ?

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

I love my Pontiacs too! And easier to work on and find parts!

And Brad I have a Pontiac powered Camaro

I bet that drives the chevy lovers crazy............LOL

Back in the late 70s I had a customer that blew the 350 up in his 73 chevelle, we stuffed a 455 in it. He had pulled the starter after the swap, and put it back up with the battery cables in the wrong position, and it started an electrical fire. Insurance totaled the car, and it went to a wrecking yard. I would have loved to been standing there when the junkyard guys raised the hood........

[gtorich]

Thought i would hook this up instead of starting a different post.........decided to use my other 455 block and start out fresh, got the heads off today, the valley pan was welded on with rtv, took a good hour with a razor blade messing with that thing, hope i didnt wreck that..........no wonder my rtv bill was over a $100, just messing with you guys, lol

Im gonna get the cam out tomorrow, it is the old faithful grind, been in there for quite a few years, hope this isnt too bad, i dont feel any knicks but it looks like some wear marks, no idea if is this normal or not. I will send some better pics when i get that puppy out.

I like the cam, but it seems to work better at the higher rpms..............im more or less a smoke them thru the intersection and call it a day kind of guy, so if you guys have a better cam idea, let me know.........right now i have the 295 cfm kre heads by sd.

Hopefully this cam is ok to go.

Rich

[gtorich]

Ok, today got the pistons out, bearings are a little scuffed up, no idea on what they used to put the balancer on, but i tried 3 different impact, nothing would move that bolt, so i put a bolt in the crank flange and used a breaker bar, you can see the bolt bent a little, wonder if that did any damage to the crank, not that im gonna ever use this crank again.

Gonna get the cam out tomorrow, hopefully thats not shot, this has been a real learning exercise, hope i never have to go thru this again.

I"ll send a pic of the cam tomorrow.


That last pic of the piston was the last one i pulled out, all the others seem to have the rings pretty tight on them, this one was really full of oil and the rings seemed real spongy, will check out better tomorrow, wonder if something was broken on that piston.

Rich

[gtorich]

Just thought of this late, with all the issues ive had, are these rods even installed right...........

[grivera]

The balancer factory balancer bolt gets to torqued to 160# - and if it’s ARP using their lube 180#

[mgarblik]

I can't tell allot from those pictures. But from what I can see, it looks like possibly a dirty assembly? I see a few rod bearings scratched into the copper? Can't tell if rods were assembled correctly from the pics. But you can look at the big end of the rods. The large chamfer always faces the crankshaft cheek. The narrow chamfer always faces the other mating connecting rod.

It is virtually impossible to tighten the balancer bolt too tight. It is a 5/8" fine thread. It could be tightened to over 240 ft. lbs. without pulling threads with a grade 8 bolt. My guess is they just blasted it on with an air impact until it quit turning. Not the right way to do it but won't actually hurt anything IMO.

Overall, kind of looks like a general assembly by a shop that treated it like , "just another boat anchor Pontiac". How many times have we heard this?

[HWYSTR455]

The bent bolt is a grade 5 bolt and being long didn't help, of course it will bend.

Cam lobes look pretty worn IMO, but it may just be the quality of pics. If you built a fresh engine, it wouldn't make sense to put that cam in it and take a risk.

See copper on the upper half of rod bearings, looks like det to me, and, there was a lot of trash in the engine.

I personally wouldn't use anything from that engine except maybe the block and rods. Rods would have to be gone through and would prob cost just as much or more than buying a new set.



.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

The bent bolt is a grade 5 bolt and being long didn't help, of course it will bend.

Cam lobes look pretty worn IMO, but it may just be the quality of pics. If you built a fresh engine, it wouldn't make sense to put that cam in it and take a risk.

See copper on the upper half of rod bearings, looks like det to me, and, there was a lot of trash in the engine.

I personally wouldn't use anything from that engine except maybe the block and rods. Rods would have to be gone through and would prob cost just as much or more than buying a new set.



.

Mike, quit sugar coating it. lol..........you would think they didnt clean it after the hone.........maybe they didnt.

Couple pics of the cam after cleaning it up some...........was hoping this would be ok.

Also some pics of the cam bearing, i dont think that is supposed to hang out that much, never put those in so i wouldnt know what there supposed to look like.

Worse part i got everything off the motor, then noticed the bellhousing dowels, i had those dialed in for my bellhousing.............oh boy, now i need that done again if i go to a different block.................at least the tkx shifted great.

[gtorich]

Couple pics of the cam bearings i was talking about, seems one is really not centered right, that one was the worse, another was out just a little.................really hard to see, but in the pic of the main, it looks like the rotational holes were not looking like they were full, but maybe that came out when pulled the one piece seal out.

Not sure what direction im gonna go in..................but i have to do something. lol

Rich

[b-man]

Well, there’s always this:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=882613

The guy selling it might’ve known what he’s doing.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by b-man

Well, there’s always this:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=882613

The guy selling it might’ve known what he’s doing.

Yes Bart, ive been talking to Paul through pm"s, he has been more than helpful, saying even if i dont get this motor from him, he would like to see me get a good motor from someone.

Another one i was looking at from Butlers, they supply the block and rotating assembly, you or your builder need to put it together.

I dont know why on their site page they have assembled short blocks, says call......................well when i called and asked about that, i get we dont do that anymore.

The also say, they will not build a motor for you anymore, they will do a motor here or there and put it up on their website for you to buy.

[HWYSTR455]

I doubt that one cam bearing was getting any oil, can't see how that hole would have lined up with the feed hole in the block. I don't understand how the shop even let that go out the door like that, a high school shop class would have done better.

The lobes on that cam appear to be worn pretty bad, as if the rollers weren't even turning. With that few of miles, there should only be a 'ghost' type witness mark on them.

What do the lifters look like?



.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by gtorich

...Also some pics of the cam bearing, i dont think that is supposed to hang out that much...

Take a flashlight and shine down the oil passage from the main bearing and see how the cam bearing holes line up. Nice to see the bearing oil hole centered in the passage, but as long as the complete hole is visible, it will work fine. Core shift might leave a bearing edge exposed but that won't hurt anything.