[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Depends on what your definition of cleaning is.

The instructions are very specific that you only do a gentle wash of the outside of the lifter. They don't want them taken apart and they don't want aggressive cleaning around the wheel as they have their own lubricant packed into the bearings that they want there during initial start. They did say soaking in break in oil for at least 2 hours was acceptable and preferred.

So that's what I did, a gentle outside wash, don't blow with compressed air. let air dry and then soaked for a few hours in brad penn 10-30 break in oil.

This is how I've treated every hydraulic roller lifter without issue. I have always taken the Johnsons or Hylift Johnsons, gave them a gentle bath and soak in break in oil. Install and go.

To add, I've changed the oil 4 times now in this engine. Initial run and tuning, then a short 30 mile drive and dropped the break in oil. refilled with more break in oil and drove roughly 500-ish miles and changed oil again to some ZR1. Drove another 800 miles and changed oil again this time with some Amsoil that is going to stay in the engine. So far that oil has about another 1300 miles on it I've cut the filter every time and other than the initial run in where I expect to see some metallic from break in, the filters have been very clean and oil looks good. Not using any oil and running really nice, but still a lifter bleeding down after it sits a few hours. The sewing machine noise I can live with even though it's louder than my solid flat tappet lifter engine LOL. But because of the bleed down issue I'm just swapping them out for Johnsons.

What part# of the Johnsons are you getting?

[Formulajones]

I forget the number off the top of my head but I ordered the reduced travel with pin oiling. Didn't want or need the short travel for this engine but I do like the pin oiling feature.

[Formulajones]

And I misspoke in an earlier post Jay was asking.

The cam is a 1223 not a 1203. The 1223 is a steel core from Summit. Something I had laying around for a different project that didn't get used. This particular engine it's in now was slated for a Howards hydraulic roller with 219 @ .050 and was supposed to be a 355. It morphed into a 383 build and I then didn't like the small 219 cam and wanted a little more. Realizing I had that 224 Summit cam on the shelf I grabbed it and used it.

Going by Jays description of lobe intensity this cam is only 52 degrees on the intake lobes which isn't bad. It's the exhaust lobe that is aggressive at 49 degrees. So it's a probability the sew machine noise is coming from the exhaust side of things, or I just have a crappy batch of evolution lifters because there is one that completely bleeds down after sitting. Who knows but I'm pretty confident this cam will be quiet with Johnson lifters.

[charlie66]

The only ones on butlers' site that have pin oiling are the HLJ-A-2375SE. If you know of other Johnsons that, have it please lmk .

[Formulajones]

Those are the ones I use in Pontiac engines......HLJ's

[grivera]

Though Anecdotal, Lee Atkinson posted on Facebook that he has used the CC Evolution lifters on several builds and has been happy with them. I asked him if he's had any tickers and he said he had one, resolved by increasing preload from 1/4 to 3/4 turn.

[Formulajones]

Not sure why you would only set preload at 1/4 turn. That's barely 20 thou basically nothing.

Instructions are specific on these. 1/2 turn for a 3/8-24 stud and 3/4 turn for a 7/16-20 stud. That's right off the paperwork that comes with these lifters. It talks about wanting the plunger about or somewhere close to the middle of travel and says travel is .125"

I'm running 7/16-20 studs so mine are at 3/4 turn. I thought about going 1 full turn but when I had the covers off recently I was rotating the engine by hand and couldn't find a smoking gun. They were all tight so I just left it alone knowing id be taking it apart anyway.

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Those are the ones I use in Pontiac engines......HLJ's

What is your opinion about using 20/50 oil with these lifters (HLJ-A-2375SE)? Would it be a problem. They say their clearances are really tight between the lifter body and piston.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Instructions are specific on these. 1/2 turn for a 3/8-24 stud and 3/4 turn for a 7/16-20 stud. That's right off the paperwork that comes with these lifters. It talks about wanting the plunger about or somewhere close to the middle of travel and says travel is .125"

I'm running 7/16-20 studs so mine are at 3/4 turn. I thought about going 1 full turn but when I had the covers off recently I was rotating the engine by hand and couldn't find a smoking gun. They were all tight so I just left it alone knowing id be taking it apart anyway.

I posted about this contradiction in the instructions re: the plunger being in the center of travel. On a 7/16 stud, one full turn is .050 so it'll take 1.25 turns/.0625 to be at the center of travel. 3/4 turn is only .0375 pre-load, or 1/3 of full travel.

[Jay S]

For HR lifters generally a full synthetic or a multi grade 10w50 or a 15w50 parasynthetic will work better over a conventional 20w50. Harley’s use HLJ “SE” with 20w50 oil, but the oil operates closer to 300*. They start out cold just like anything else. 10w30 is what is recommended for most automotive HLJ slow bleed HR applications.

For thicker oil most HR valving is to restrictive when cold and they may make more racket until they warm up. If the noise doesn’t quiet down with 20w50 I’d just try a different oil or viscosity. Morel’s are one of the worst lifters with thick oil, the feed to the plunger can even be to restrictive even after it is hot. Dropping back on the viscosity usually helps quiet’s them up.

[charlie66]

Jay, I remember you saying that, so I asked Scott at butler if they ever used 20/50 with those lifters and was expecting him to say no. But he said all the time and that you can. So that confused me a bit. That's why I was asking again and was trying to find out what formularjones was using. I like those lifters because they have the high-pressure oiling and don't mind the higher price. Butler said any of their lifers are good for what I'm doing, but I also know they sell them so why wouldn't he say that lol.

[Dragncar]

https://schaeffersoilshop.com/produc...cing-oil-5w-50

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by charlie66

What is your opinion about using 20/50 oil with these lifters (HLJ-A-2375SE)? Would it be a problem. They say their clearances are really tight between the lifter body and piston.

I use 20-50 synthetic with them for years without issues.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by grivera

I posted about this contradiction in the instructions re: the plunger being in the center of travel. On a 7/16 stud, one full turn is .050 so it'll take 1.25 turns/.0625 to be at the center of travel. 3/4 turn is only .0375 pre-load, or 1/3 of full travel.

Yup

[charlie66]

So, I called Johnson and got a guy named Joe Louis. Not sure but it sounded like he owned the place. I asked him about the lifters, and he said that the HLJ-A-2375SE was not his which I think Jay had mentioned something about that way back in the beginning of this thread. He seemed to be annoyed and said that there not supposed to call them Johnsons.
So, I asked him about the JLI-ST2112OPR-16 and JLI-2112OPR-16. He said that they are his and he recommended a JLI-2112OPR-16 set. I asked why they didn't make them with pin oiling. He then answered that he will look into getting me possibly a put together set that are for a LS block that will be paired with Pontiac link bars. He said the band heights will be correct for Pontiac. He took my number and said he will get back to me in a couple of days or maybe tomorrow.

[charlie66]

He also said that his lifters come pumped up with thin weight hydraulic fluid and does not want the first start up with anything heavier than a 30-weight oil and wants at least 10 heat cycles in the motor with that oil in it. Then you can change the oil to 20/50 if you want to.

[Jay S]

That would be awesome if you could get that 2112OPR with pin oiling. That was worth a phone call.


Yep, both companies claim to be the original Johnson that have been in business for 70 years. As you found out, not a lot of love between those companies. I bet they know each others part numbers by heart from people confusing the companies. Lol

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by charlie66

He also said that his lifters come pumped up with thin weight hydraulic fluid and does not want the first start up with anything heavier than a 30-weight oil and wants at least 10 heat cycles in the motor with that oil in it. Then you can change the oil to 20/50 if you want to.

Yeah that's never been an issue for me as I run engines with 10-30 break in oil for a few hundred miles anyway, way more than 10 heat cycles, before I dump it for regular oil

[Formulajones]

Sorry, I thought you knew Hylift Johnson and Johnson were 2 different companies.

Ironically both are in michigan too which I think adds more confusion

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Jay S

That would be awesome if you could get that 2112OPR with pin oiling. That was worth a phone call.


Yep, both companies claim to be the original Johnson that have been in business for 70 years. As you found out, not a lot of love between those companies. I bet they know each others part numbers by heart from people confusing the companies. Lol

Yes, it would!

But I have to say, it concerns me with the whole LS thing. How do I know the band heights will be at the best location for a Pontiac. Will it be something that just works that get you by or will it be in the optimal location idk. Does that even matter,idk either.lol

He said that he doesn't sell to the public, but he will set me up with a vender. I'm not that comfortable with that either lol. He seemed cool so I guess or I'm hoping that he will set me up with a trustworthy company.

I do want to say thank you Jay. You made me aware of the fact that there not all Johnsons even though some say that they are..