[jhein]

Yeah, I ordered the parts last night to extend the the line past the mounting plate. Hopefully I won't run into clearance problems with my cursed muffler. I'm getting very close to busting out the sawzall...

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by jhein

It's the two small bolts at the front of the tank where the straps hook into the body. The space between there and the muffler is very tight. It was difficult to get them out and impossible to get them back in. Using a pry bar, I can barely get the muffler to move, not enough to get the bolt in. I'm sure that 1/4" shorter bolt will do the trick if I can find one.

Gotcha. Yeah, you can use a sheet metal screw, but might have to make the hole slightly larger. But if you use a sheet metal screw, you can get any length you want. And I have no idea why they include such long ones, I just ended up using OE repop ones.

As for the standpipe, your' car should have one, it's at the top of the diff hump, and can be seen in the trunk. It's behind the back seat. '70 I think is the only year that didn't have them. (pic)

I have an aluminum cover on my 12 bolt, and my pump extensions are about as far as they can go, and allow the 90 degree fitting to not get whacked off by the rear cycling up & down. (pic)

If you get stuck not having ANY room, bending hard lines is the way to go. You can follow the OE line path, and think some cars even have a brace at the side that screws into the stamped seam of the tank. You could use a piece of flat bar stock, dipped adel clamps, and mount it on that seam too.

EDIT: Don't drill on the inside of that stamping of the tank flange/seam.



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[jhein]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Gotcha. Yeah, you can use a sheet metal screw, but might have to make the hole slightly larger. But if you use a sheet metal screw, you can get any length you want. And I have no idea why they include such long ones, I just ended up using OE repop ones.

As for the standpipe, your' car should have one, it's at the top of the diff hump, and can be seen in the trunk. It's behind the back seat. '70 I think is the only year that didn't have them. (pic)

I have an aluminum cover on my 12 bolt, and my pump extensions are about as far as they can go, and allow the 90 degree fitting to not get whacked off by the rear cycling up & down. (pic)

If you get stuck not having ANY room, bending hard lines is the way to go. You can follow the OE line path, and think some cars even have a brace at the side that screws into the stamped seam of the tank. You could use a piece of flat bar stock, dipped adel clamps, and mount it on that seam too.

EDIT: Don't drill on the inside of that stamping of the tank flange/seam.



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I haven't noticed it but I'll look for it next time I'm out there. That would be great if I have it.

[HWYSTR455]

If you don't have it, see if it has the provision for the standpipe and if it just has a block off plate.

70 was kind of a transition year, I know 71-up had them. If you have a late 70 production, I suspect it has one.

You will know if you look. And from under the car, all you see is the line ends sticking thru from the trunk.

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[jhein]

I'm too lazy to go look now but this is a picture of the inside of my trunk and it looks like it's not there. Bummer. Maybe I'll check Frank's and see if they have one.

[78w72]

jhein- I have the standpipe from my 72 I would consider selling...

Regarding the tanks inc vent, just an FYI based on my experience using it for 10+ years on my 72 that i have a 1970 ventless tank in... it does not smell when parked in the garage after a drive or slosh fuel when braking on the street or at the dragstrip doing 123mph. It needs to be mounted above the tank as high as possible but it works great on my car. I use a OEM type 1972 vented gas cap too that only allows air in, the out is done by the vent. Well worth $16 as a easy option to vent and has the roll over safety feature.

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...prod/prd98.htm

[grivera]

Like 78w72, I also have the Tanks Inc vent on my 69 bird, mounted above the tank per instructions. No fuel smell ever.

[JLMounce]

There are a couple of places that are making charcoal canisters for these now. Tanks has a generic canister that you can mount almost anywhere that isn't horribly expensive. There's also stuff like the IImuch Fabrication unit which is awesome, but very expensive.

With a full tank, I sometimes get some fuel smell from my tanks setup, but part of that issue is the design of the 69 F-body gas tank. The filler neck is nowhere near high enough above the fuel line and any type of performance driving or jostling with a full tanks can result in fuel getting up to and past the cap, or into the vent line.

[jhein]

Thanks guys. I'll just use the Tanks vent and see how it goes. Sounds like it will be OK. If not, then I can try something else.

[HWYSTR455]

That pic I posted of the tank has one of the Tanks Inc vents on it in the 442, was installed properly, as high as it could go, you slam on the brakes and it would shoot out of it.

Same thing on the LeMans, finally bailed on it out of frustration.

I can't see what I possibly could have done wrong with install, but maybe it's the way I drive?

There's nothing to it, it's just a check valve, not sure how it could be installed improperly.

On both cars I just ended up using the OE standpipe and cured it for both cars.

I did look at the aftermarket ones offered, and yeah, stupid money.

Had issues with vented caps, too, but not going there in this thread...


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[Formulajones]

I use the tanks vent without issues

What I've found is not only does it have to be mounted high but I also coil the hose. I believe even some instructions state that.

Either way, I use a hose long enough that I can put 3-4 coils in it before the vent.

[78w72]

HWY- Maybe the cars you used it on dont let it be mounted high enough?

I can say for sure that after 10+ years I have zero slosh or spill over on my 72 firebird and thats with very hard driving/braking on the street, I have smooth windy back roads I drive with almost no traffic during the week days and I push the car about as hard as anyone would on the street, basically road race type corners & hard braking, and low 11s at 121-123 mph with a 3/4-full tank that I brake hard to make the 1st turn off... no fuel slosh or signs of wetness on the vent/hose & very little to no smell when parked in the garage... at least no more than the open vented Q-jet that I dont use a charcoal canister on.

The repro OEM vented cap works as it should too... they are a one way valve you can test by sucking on the inside, it will flow in but not out so it wont allow fuel out but lets air in. When I first installed the 1970 ventless tank I had slight pressure & worse vac issues, so I installed the tanks inc vent and that fixed the pressure, then got a vented cap and that fixed the vac issue, prior to that I would remove the cap to get gas after a few days of driving and there would be a high suction in from vac built up. I have a robbmc pickup that they say to run 3/4 or full tank to avoid starvation, the cap doesnt slosh fuel on hard launches and vents in as needed... no issues with the cap.

I dont think i coiled the hose but thats a great idea and would or should stop any sloshing out the vent if it cant be mounted high enough. Just my experiences with the vent and vented OEM cap.

[Gator67]

I run a IIMuch vent in my 70 Formula. I bought it after their first redesign, and it works great. The company has been struggling to fill orders for a while now, so we decided to try the Tanks Inc vent when we built my son's 79. We mounted it as high as we could get it and as per the instructions, we made sure the line ran upward with no dips to trap fuel. It seems to be working fine. No fuel smells or sloshing out the vent, but not sure the car's been pushed hard with a completely full tank.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by 78w72

HWY- Maybe the cars you used it on dont let it be mounted high enough?

I can say for sure that after 10+ years I have zero slosh or spill over on my 72 firebird and thats with very hard driving/braking on the street, I have smooth windy back roads I drive with almost no traffic during the week days and I push the car about as hard as anyone would on the street, basically road race type corners & hard braking, and low 11s at 121-123 mph with a 3/4-full tank that I brake hard to make the 1st turn off... no fuel slosh or signs of wetness on the vent/hose & very little to no smell when parked in the garage... at least no more than the open vented Q-jet that I dont use a charcoal canister on.

The repro OEM vented cap works as it should too... they are a one way valve you can test by sucking on the inside, it will flow in but not out so it wont allow fuel out but lets air in. When I first installed the 1970 ventless tank I had slight pressure & worse vac issues, so I installed the tanks inc vent and that fixed the pressure, then got a vented cap and that fixed the vac issue, prior to that I would remove the cap to get gas after a few days of driving and there would be a high suction in from vac built up. I have a robbmc pickup that they say to run 3/4 or full tank to avoid starvation, the cap doesnt slosh fuel on hard launches and vents in as needed... no issues with the cap.

I dont think i coiled the hose but thats a great idea and would or should stop any sloshing out the vent if it cant be mounted high enough. Just my experiences with the vent and vented OEM cap.

Maybe it's my bodies, both were 71-72 A-Bodies, LeMans & 442. It was as high as it could go, top of the diff hump. I tried turning it, loops, everything, and gave up. For me, the loops actually made it worse, it would hold fuel in the loops and if psi built in tank it would shoot more out. I tried all diff kinds of caps everything I could think of and gave up. I ran high vol elect pumps in bypass, maybe that was the diff, but using the standpipe cured it so, I moved on.

Vented caps are garbage these days, they don't vent for crap. I tried all of them out there, had a box full of them, even tried drilling holes in them and they would spit on hard accel.

I went to a Ricks tank in the Pontiac, it comes with a late model type baffled fill neck, and that cured a lot of issue related to the caps, but I had already switched to the standpipe, so not sure if it was a combo thing or no, like I said, once I went to the standpipe it was a non-issue, and that was before I went to the Rick's tank.

If it works for you, by all means used it, I just thought it was good info to share. It's not like I didn't try, really did try to work it out.


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[78w72]

Sorry to hear about the problems with the vent & cap... based on reviews I read before buying it and the posts on here it sounds like your situation is not the norm, these vents work good 99% of the time & I like the roll over feature for a little added security.

As for the vented caps, very strange you had so much trouble, i use a basic gates repro vented cap bought from rock auto 10+ years ago, same cap sold at auto parts stores, it vents exactly as it should, its a 1 way valve that only allows air in, not out, can verify that by sucking on the back side of the valve, takes a little force but you can tell when it opens, then blow out as hard as you can and it seals tight. But the real proof is that it stopped the vac psi build up the instant I installed it. Cant imagine why you got so many that didnt vent in as they should, but claiming they are all crap isnt true, mine works great.

Im sure you know this, but these types of vented caps Im referring to are only used on the unvented completely sealed tanks like they used in 1970, the caps used on later year emission cars with stand pipes & charcoal canisters are different.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...t=5900&jsn=608

Sorry for the highjack, just wanted to reply on the vent/cap comments with info that applies to teh OP's 2nd gen bird. Back to the Tanks inc install..

[jhein]

What have you guys done to mount the Tanks Inc vent? Make bracket from sheet metal?

[Formulajones]

On the vented caps, and I'm talking the originals, they vented both ways back in the day, on the pre 1970 stuff. I remember when these cars were new, if you filled them up yes they could spill a little fuel on a hard acceleration. It was never a big deal. They never did stink in the garage either, still to this day I can't tell a difference in that regard anyway.

Repop vented caps don't do that, they only vent inward. I tend to believe the manufactures are restricted and can't make them vent outward due to regulations put in place long after these cars were built

Because of that I had to seek out nos caps at swap meets for our older cars that vent in and out. These keep pressure from building after shutdown, especially when it's hot outside. I suspect that's a possible problem with some of you guys having hot start issues too

My 70 formula has its original vented cap, it vents both ways and yes it can trickle fuel out on a hard launch if I have the tank filled to the top. My 69 z also does the same thing.

When I'm at the track I just shove a shop rag behind the license plate so I don't splash the starting line. Not a big deal really, been dealing with that for 45 years. It's how these cars were. Dad bought his 69 GTO new, still has its original cap, and it vents in and out, and yep it'll spill fuel when the tank is topped off. It's been like that since it was brand new.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by jhein

What have you guys done to mount the Tanks Inc vent? Make bracket from sheet metal?

Originally Posted by jhein

What have you guys done to mount the Tanks Inc vent? Make bracket from sheet metal?

Yes, that's what I did, used sheet aluminum, bent it into a 'Z' and drilled holes.

I started with it piggy backing on one of the standpipe bolt locations, moved it to the top of the spring plates but saw no difference on either side of the car.

And as I mentioned before, using the modern style fill neck on my Rick's tank solved the spitting issue, and also any slosh that may have occurred during filling. I will probably see if Rick's will sell a modern fill neck & cap only, and will replace the one on 442.

On the Tanks filler neck, if I put the pump handle on 'auto', sometimes if would spit when it became full (when nozzle auto-shutoff).

Pissed me off (pun intended) when I spit out the back because I coat the backside of my bumpers with spray on bed liner, and it would make a mess.

The Rick's tank filler neck cap is non-vented.

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[78w72]

Originally Posted by jhein

What have you guys done to mount the Tanks Inc vent? Make bracket from sheet metal?

I kept mine simple, just zip tied it to a factory bracket that is located towards the driver side of the car on the underside of the trunk area, pretty much the highest point in that area without drilling holes or mounting with a bracket.

[jhein]

OK. Small steps. I got the straps installed and the tank loosely fitted. Right now I have very little space between the tank and the muffler. Once I get it snugged up I'm hoping it will get better. Honestly. I'm very close to ditching the transverse muffler setup. It's been a real PITA.

Additionally, is it really that great of an idea to have the muffler acting as a heater for your fuel tank?