[jhein]

Originally Posted by ta6point6

Instant torque, simple drivetrain= batteries, electric motors, so less parts to break and less maintenance costs i.e. brakes last longer with regeneration while stopping. In town driving also regenerates power back into EV when you are driving. Charging an EV off peak/night time hours is about .13. is Most cases more room because there is no transmission hump
As I see it the only limitations to EVs is the cost of EV compared to ICEV although prices have come down drastically, but new vehicles are expensive now a days. The charging times can be long compared to filling up an ICEV vehicle although in China they have a station where you pull in and a robotic elevator changes out your battery for a charged one in under 3 minutes. There are also some places that offer free EV charging not a lot of places but there are some in the US, when is the last time you got free gas. There have been plenty of youtubers who have driven across America in an EV.

So as a matter of being superior to an EV for basic transportation, they're not. Instant torque is nice but totally not necessary for a DD. Simple drivetrain, maybe, but my modern ICEVs have been very trouble free. Complexity has not been an issue at all. Brakes lasting longer is a marginal improvement but offset by tires, insurance and poor resale. Plus you have issues with charging availability, poor cold weather performance.

As I see it there is no real advantage for an EV. Plus they are much more expensive initially. The least expensive EV in the US now is 29K. The least expensive ICEV is 20K. So that's asking to pay nearly 50% more for a car that isn't any better. ROI is supposedly around 8 years but I'm not sure about that at all. And that's if energy prices stay the same. With demand going up due to AI, who knows.

But here's the real problem with EVs. If they really are better, then people will naturally select them over ICEVs. If they're not, then the industry will require things like mandates and taxpayer funded subsides. And since we have those things, it seems to imply that they can't compete with ICEVs on an equal footing.

As has been said before, I think that EVs are fine if somebody wants one. Just don't tell me I have to buy one or that I have to pay for someone else's.

[mgarblik]

A slightly different way to look at EV's. If owning a car or SUV is looked at like it's just another annoying appliance, an EV makes allot of sense for many people. How many of us have an emotional attachment to our washer and dryer, dishwasher, refrigerator, HVAC unit? Possibly a few, but not many. For the vast majority of Americans, owning a car or SUV is just another thing that breaks down, constantly needs attention and money spent on it that they don't have. When it finally falls apart in 4-6 years, they throw it out, just like modern appliances. They don't have fond memories about how that fridge kept their food cold, how the dishwasher made their family happy by doing something special, or how the washing machine took the family on a magical vacation. For these folks, an EV makes perfect sense. You plug it in like a vacuum cleaner and use it until it quits. game over. They are nothing like the cars many of us know, love and take care of. It's just different, not necessarily wrong or bad.

[KS circutguy]

If you think they don't break and are not very complicated do a you-tube search...

[KS circutguy]

How many of us have an emotional attachment to our washer and dryer, dishwasher, refrigerator, HVAC unit?

Now that's hilarious.
Great analogy as well.

[KS circutguy]

Nice Land-cruiser Petrol car Aussie review.lol
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cJlpvtP4iYM

[jhein]

Originally Posted by jhein

So as a matter of being superior to an ICEV for basic transportation, they're not.

Correction for typo. That was supposed to say ICEV as above...

[TXSTARFIRE]

Originally Posted by jhein

But here's the real problem with EVs. If they really are better, then people will naturally select them over ICEVs. If they're not, then the industry will require things like mandates and taxpayer funded subsides. And since we have those things, it seems to imply that they can't compete with ICEVs on an equal footing.

This is exactly right. I dont care what anyone buys and drives but I dont want my tax dollars paying for it!

[jhein]

And from what I've read, US automakers have suffered around $50 Billion in losses in EV sales in the last year. But no doubt they've just passed it on to the ICEV customers. Just another EV subsidy and another part of the reason I won't buy a new car.

[KS circutguy]

BIGGEST LOSER': EVs hit HARDEST in market downturn;
FOX Business correspondent Jeff Flock joins ‘Varney & Co.’ to break down the surge in SUV and truck sales, the slowdown in electric vehicle demand and how billions in tariffs are reshaping the auto industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udaZZVbwj2A

[ta6point6]

Originally Posted by jhein

So as a matter of being superior to an EV for basic transportation, they're not.

As I see it there is no real advantage for an EV. Plus they are much more expensive initially.

.

You mean other then saving thousands of dollars a year on fuel cost, the EV comes out ahead in the most important advantage..........your pocketbook
The people losing are the American people having to pay these ever-rising gas prices.

[KS circutguy]

Ask what people are paying for a re-charge at a charge station now.
It ain't free...It's near gas pricing now.
Charging a Tesla at public charging stations can cost between $17.81 and over $70, depending on the charging station and any additional fees. It's generally more economical to charge at home, where costs range from $10.98 to $18.00 for a full charge.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by ta6point6

You mean other then saving thousands of dollars a year on fuel cost, the EV comes out ahead in the most important advantage..........your pocketbook
The people losing are the American people having to pay these ever-rising gas prices.

Well, it appears that most consumers aren't compelled by that.

[ta6point6]

Originally Posted by KS circutguy

Ask what people are paying for a re-charge at a charge station now.
That is probably one of the rare times when you should not buy an EV. If you could charge at home off peak hours that is where the cost savings are as stated before. Although with the savings you save on low maintenance compared to gas engines an EV can still come out ahead depending on its efficiency, also regen adds power back to the EV as well
It isn't free...It's near gas pricing now.
Charging a Tesla at public charging stations can cost between $17.81 and over $70, depending on the charging station and any additional fees. It's generally more economical to charge at home, where costs range from $10.98 to $18.00 for a full charge.

Exactly you are making my point an EV will save you at least a 1000 a year depending on EV and again that is where it outshines a gas vehicle

[ta6point6]

Originally Posted by jhein

Well, it appears that most consumers aren't compelled by that.

New EV sales are lagging behind but used EV sales have picked up 28%. If high gas prices do not affect your daily life, then good for you.

[Region Warrior]

Retired year ago from Buick Cadillac GMC.
Things to consider...
Unless they improved level 1 chargers(120V comes with vehicle) takes 20-40 hrs full charge get 30-50 miles.
Fine for round town.
GM practicaly gave away 220v chargers for $995. Bout $60 profit.
Nice if have already have 220 in garage. Charger has to be installed by certified commercial electrician(documentation)or no warranty on charger.
This came about from GM cause an idiot thought he could modifier cord and hose longer on 1st and 2nd chargers he fried circuits claimimg where faulty. Course didnt mention mods.
Had customers say could cost to run 220 into garage cost about $2500 total.
Guess if can afford a $150k Escalade no big deal.

Ok now bad part.
We had vehicles main battery fail in 1st 2 yrs. Not to bad for new tech. 1 Escalade 2. Another 3.
Except like pulling a good teeth proving diagnosis and contacting testicular dept(what techs called itFfl.
Fill out paperwork with vin, battery production number, trouble codes, miles etc.
Noww vehicle been there 2 days. Once GM approved battery is dropped from a specialized dedicated lift for EV r&i battery replacement.
2-3 days later depending if driver had a 2nd stop(2 max) from Tennessee to our zone. 2 batterys max in 300lb crates. Think ship weight 1100 lbs? Only replacement and return batteries in truck. Nothing else.
O ya dealer has to have specialized lift to replace batteries. And a certified fork operator. But taked easy. Just say i am.

Did I mention all the salesmen ckaim evs barley put out heat winter months and drained batteries faster. Same for ac summer. None one wanted an ev demo after 1st one.
But sold them like hot cakes cause GM mandated certain percentage for every gas vehicle ordered.

[Region Warrior]

Nearly 3rd lot full sitting vs customers waiting weeks for gas and diesel

[ta6point6]

Hey since you worked at GM dealership let me ask you a question or 2. I thought with the Ultium battery packs, that if one goes bad they just change the one module not the entire thing. Also I was reading that car manufactures not just GM are making it so that only brand dealerships can work on their own brands. That essentially car dealers are saying that when you buy a vehicle it is yours but the software in vehicle is only loaned to the new owner.
My two biggest concerns with EVs or new cars in general is the software glitches that often come along with it. Look how many times you have to update your phone just to have something else start glitching on the phone.

[Charlie Brengun]

I have an EV. I have had it for 3 years now, I like it (mostly).. what I like about it compared to my previous daily drivers.

1. Super smooth / comfortable to drive
2. Charge it home, I almost never visit a gas or now charging station anymore. I have a 380v connection, so a full charge is 6 to 8 hours max.

I dislike:
1. Range, it just sucks for longer trips especially in the cold (even less range)
2. Want to go fast? Even less range..
3. Boring to drive, it has no car feel at all. Now my previous daily drivers are boring as well when compared to a classic car.. but the EV really out bores them.

Why does the EV work for me? My commute to the office is 35 miles, it's a company car, the boss pays for everything (electricity, maintenance etc). However if I lived in the USA or any country where driving long distances is the norm I'd never buy one.

The range on mine is about 300 miles at 60 mph FWIW.

[KS circutguy]

Spot on analogy.
Charlie.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brengun

The range on mine is about 300 miles at 60 mph FWIW.

Charlie, what make/model is this?


March car sales up here in PT by 9.1%, of which 74.3% are EV's. I do note more on the road and charging stations getting busier.