[HWYSTR455]

So was looking at the two, and considering which to get, either the victor-based (29575/29565) or the T2-based (50565) EFI intake?

The build is a e-head 461, solid roller 236/242/110/.623, 2600 stall OD + lockup, 373 rear, and will be used in the 1800-6000 RPM range, 3900 lbs, mostly street driven.

Since it's dry, plenum velocity isn't much of an issue, correct? Which leads me to believe the super-victor is the correct choice. But my mind is playing tricks on me, so figured I'd get others' take on this.

ECU is undecided, but I'm leaning heavily towards the Holley HP/Terminator/Dominator, mainly for cost and features.

I'm interested in comments, tips, suggestions, etc, please fire away!

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[Tom Vaught]

Super Victor EFI would be my vote

With EFI you would need a Throttle Position Sensor and fabbing one for a 4 bbl throttle (using a carb) is not that easy. It can be done though.

My vote would be to buy Edelbrock Throttle Body Intake Elbow PN# 38473 (LS application with tall E-manifold) and a 90mm Throttle Body and have fun.

Tom V.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Super Victor EFI would be my vote

Tom V.

That's what I'm thinking, even already have the rails for it! Is there a difference between the 4150 and the 4500 manifolds, performance-wise?

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[4RSFEDGTO]

Buy my setup in the classified section! lol

[darbikrash]

If you go with the T2 based Victor EFI intake, it's a little more involved to mount the fuel rails. I ended up adding a 1 3/4" Wilson spacer to get the 4150 Holley throttle body up off the fuel rails.

Then, I fabricated some standoffs to locate the rails to the intake.

If you don't space the throttle body up the linkage interferes with the fuel rails. If you have a automatic transmission with a TVS cable it is even worse, as the bellcrank extends down further into the rail

It ended up packaging nicely, but it was more work than I thought it would be. I expect it would be less trouble with the Super Victor, as they use a more straightforward system to mount the fuel rails.




Here you can see the clearance for the bellcrank that the Wilson spacer gives. This spacer was 1.5", when I put on the TVS cable, it still hit so I went to the 1 3/4" spacer.
The throttle bracket is from Holley, I ended up not using it as it is too low.





This is the final throttle bracket I ended up with. The notch is for the TVS cable, the throttle mounts with another piece not shown.

[HWYSTR455]

Nice reference photos and info darbikrash, sure others appreciate it too.

Question for you, is it possible to turn the injectors so the connectors are towards the center of the intake? And have the connectors clear the rails?

Which throttle body is that?

And which ECU did you end up using?

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[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by 4RSFEDGTO

Buy my setup in the classified section! lol

And that's a dominator flange victor?

I was planning on running a 4150/4500 style TB, my understanding is they're more granular at lower RPMs, and are slightly better for drivability.

I already have rails and have a lead on a 4150 flange super victor, but if I go 4500 will reach out to you.

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[darbikrash]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Nice reference photos and info darbikrash, sure others appreciate it too.

Question for you, is it possible to turn the injectors so the connectors are towards the center of the intake? And have the connectors clear the rails?

Which throttle body is that?

And which ECU did you end up using?

.

Yeah, it would have been nice to be able to turn the injectors around so they faced inboard, but they will not clear.

The injectors are Injector Dynamics ID725 high impedance. They are flow balanced to very tight tolerances, but are pretty large for the projected HP of this engine. They flow 70 lbs/hr at 43 psi of pressure. The strategy for this motor is to run relatively short duty cycles on the injectors, and play with optimizing injector timing relative to the valve events. You can't do that with injectors that are at 90% duty cycle, as they are almost always on. Precision flow balancing the injectors allows the motor to idle nicely with injectors this large

The throttle body is a Holley EFI with 4150 flange. The ECU is a Holley HP.

[JC455]

Your plumbing looks really nice/clean.
How is the front plumbed- Where is the fuel entering your rails at? I'm thinking the regulator is for the return side, yeah?

[JC455]

HWYSTR- Have you considered the Prof. Products open plenum EFI manifold? Supposed to be the one ported by Dave at SD, then produced by Ace of PPR, only it has injector bosses on it.

[JC455]

Here's a pic...

[HWYSTR455]

Like this one? I had one fitted like 8 years ago, problem with them is that the port area doesn't have enough meat to handle high port job heads, like anything over 2.10-2.15 or so. Believe Butler 310/315 E-heads are 2.30, think high ports are even larger (2.45?).

They're great for iron heads, and I may even have the one I have 'fixed', not sure what I'll do when the time comes, have to see. For this build though, I'm definitely going to do either the victor or super victor.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by darbikrash

Yeah, it would have been nice to be able to turn the injectors around so they faced inboard, but they will not clear.

The injectors are Injector Dynamics ID725 high impedance. They are flow balanced to very tight tolerances, but are pretty large for the projected HP of this engine. They flow 70 lbs/hr at 43 psi of pressure. The strategy for this motor is to run relatively short duty cycles on the injectors, and play with optimizing injector timing relative to the valve events. You can't do that with injectors that are at 90% duty cycle, as they are almost always on. Precision flow balancing the injectors allows the motor to idle nicely with injectors this large

The throttle body is a Holley EFI with 4150 flange. The ECU is a Holley HP.

Guessing you flashed the ecu already for the terminator/dominator ios? How did that go?

.

[darbikrash]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Guessing you flashed the ecu already for the terminator/dominator ios? How did that go?

.

With the Holley system it's not so much a flash as a live uplink. There is a button for 'Sync with ECU' and you use this to connect the laptop to the ECU. Once this is done, you have a live connection with the Holley computer for uploads and downloads. Uploads are for reviewing fuel tables that have been modified during the "learning" function inside the ECU. You can look these over before you update your master fuel tables with the new data, and if you approve, you can download them to the ECU.

This is the same process as loading the initial tune file to the ECU.

Originally Posted by JC455

Your plumbing looks really nice/clean.
How is the front plumbed- Where is the fuel entering your rails at? I'm thinking the regulator is for the return side, yeah?

If you look at the last picture in post #5, you can see the (flex) supply line going up the left side between the fuel rail and valve cover, towards the front of the engine. From here it is a"Y" into the front of the fuel rails.

The regulator is on the return side. You can just see the single flexible return line under the center of the regulator. Fuel pressure is also coming off the regulator and feeds directly into the ECU.

It took me about 20' of hard line tubing to get those two small pieces of fuel line connecting the regulator/fuel rail the same length.

[JC455]

Cool! Thanks!!

[Skip Fix]

I think the Torker II version is designed to use shorter "Pico" injectors to clear the TB linkage. Seems to me using a spacer would be good to add plenum volume anyways.

Really nice plumbing!

The Tomahawk is a little low for taller porter E heads without adding weld on the top.

[darbikrash]

I originally had a set of 60 mm length LS injectors provided by Injector Dynamics, and they were not going to fit (too long). I sent them back for the 48 mm versions, these I believe are the "shorty" style LS pico injector. They exchanged them at no cost and no hassle.

Here are the dimensions of the "shorty" injectors in the motor now and shown in the pictures. The height of the fuel rail is determined by the length of the injector between the O rings, as they "float" in between the intake bungs and the counterbore in the fuel rail. Even with this style injector a minimum 1.5" carb spacer is needed.

Are there shorter (O ring to O ring) injectors available?

[Skip Fix]

I just know the "pico" style are supposed to be the shorter verison comapred to the plain old injectors used by most folks.

Not sure if connector style vs wiring harness plays into the equation either.

[Hammered]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Like this one? I had one fitted like 8 years ago, problem with them is that the port area doesn't have enough meat to handle high port job heads, like anything over 2.10-2.15 or so. Believe Butler 310/315 E-heads are 2.30, think high ports are even larger (2.45?).

They're great for iron heads, and I may even have the one I have 'fixed', not sure what I'll do when the time comes, have to see. For this build though, I'm definitely going to do either the victor or super victor.

.

I have the T2 version and could not fully port match it to my 310 cfm E-heads (1.175" x 2.30" ports). I had to leave about 0.050 on the roof and I have to glue the gaskets down good or they'll leak. So the T2 version of this intake will not work with high ports.

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

I think the Torker II version is designed to use shorter "Pico" injectors to clear the TB linkage. Seems to me using a spacer would be good to add plenum volume anyways.

Really nice plumbing!

The Tomahawk is a little low for taller porter E heads without adding weld on the top.

Yes, the T2 version is made for the picos which are shorter and would not cause the same degree of interference with a TB. I have a Kinsler 1000cfm TB that fits between the rails, but the TPS probably clears by a few thousandths. However, if I were to do it again, I'd use a spacer and a shorter TB. I have heard that there is a Honda injector that is the same size as the picos that can be had in high lb/hr flow rates. Also, I don't think the connector has anything to do with the packaging, although it would interfere with the manifold (not the rail) if turned to the inside.

[Hammered]

These are from 2005: