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#41
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Check vacuum, see if it starts pulling vacuum over x RPM. My understanding is it's a flow restriction, and don't disagree that IATs would drop. I bet IATs drop even with an open element under the hood, as air starts flowing and evacuating from the underhood area, so think a comparison would be in order to determine the gains/improvements. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#42
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I understand once psi starts to build with speed, they could flow more than a static 400cfm, but how much is the question. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#43
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#44
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#45
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More I think about it, not sure data logging vacuum would show data required to determine if there's a restriction or not, but suspect it would be at least one data point. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#46
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As an example, a ran the equivalent to the road paver in a car with PB & AC, no problems, at around 12-13" vacuum at idle. Granted, I did run a dual diaphragm 8" booster, but just to give an idea. Again, granted, that was with E-heads, but you could check, and adjust for the higher lift. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#47
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
The Following User Says Thank You to HWYSTR455 For This Useful Post: | ||
#48
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Nice work by the way, and love the build!
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#49
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#50
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Well, guess I will retract my blessing on those then. Regardless if others have been successful.
Always said Crowers are the only way to go, and that's all I use now. I just suck it up when comes to cost, and accept it's a cost required for a build. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
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#51
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I data logged KPA which was 101 for the entire pass, which basically equals zero. We did direct comparisons (same day) back when he had the 69 system on the car with an open element. That's why I stated the car always ran it's best times with the system in place and functional. After that I haven't bothered testing the open element theory on his car again now that I've reconfigured the ram air system to it's current setup. Quote:
But the restriction still comes from trying to suck all that air in through the 2 little scoop openings. That's really where everyone feels the restriction is. Also generally accepted that since the scoops only stick up about an inch above the hood and being in the middle of the hood doesn't get the scoops out of the boundary layer and aren't very effective, not the best design. But, they seem to work. As far as the OP's car is concerned, I'm of the mindset that muscle cars have really cool hoods, and even cooler when they are functional. It just makes the car to me. Since he's running the RAII heads on the car and a RAIV intake, it just seems appropriate to put the RA hood setup on the car to go with it all. Being a 68 Goat, it's such a clean and simple RA setup too that looks worlds better than the giant enclosed single snorkel air cleaner that 68's had, and more sophisticated and more classy than just plopping a generic open element air filter on top of an expensive engine if you know what I mean. |
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#52
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Stan PS - Let me add those numbers are with a BP of 29.92. If you are racing at a lower BP those numbers / increases will be lower.
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm Last edited by Stan Weiss; 09-03-2022 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Added PS |
#53
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The scoops on the 68 to 70 hoods and even the 65 to 67 hoods do not provide a pressure gain above atmospheric that’s worth even talking about if my two cents is worth anything!
Its more informative to look at temperature drop that they can provide by means of wind chill. Now the hood scoops on the 71 GTO way at the front of the hood are far better at pressurizing the carb!
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I do stuff for reasons. |
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#54
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FWIW keeping the fuel cool is probably worth more power than cooling the air. Cool fuel pulls more heat out of the intake tract than air. The old 1% increase in HP per 10 degree temp drop rule of thumb has been disproven many times. There is an improvement but not that much.
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68 GTO,3860# Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s 13.86 @ 100 Old combo: 462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's. 1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH New combo: 517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's 636HP/654TQ 1.452 10.603 @ 125.09 http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html |
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#55
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For 3" mains King does have a 0.001 tighter set also.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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#56
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Jim Hand found the cast iron intake was worth 10hp over the RA/HO aluminum intake. The repros aren't as good as the originals either. And the '68 RA II had an iron intake. Very cool setup overall. Will the air conditioning be revived?
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The Following User Says Thank You to android 211 For This Useful Post: | ||
#57
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Quote:
Stan
__________________
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#58
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That would be cool ram air II with a/c then that cam you got will be perfect. Actually I would use it if you already have it either way. If your not chasing e.t.’s at the track and you drive it a lot you will like the cam you have. My 2¢
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#59
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Just ran into a snag with the bearings if I need another set. I sized the clearances using King XP and the standard size are out of stock until late October. Butler sells the HP line. I'll give Butler a call after the holiday. Sounds like the consensus across the board is to ditch the PRW rockers. That opens up the 1.5 or 1.65 question again. I'll have to see what the heads are clearanced for when I get them back. Regarding the cam, I'm already two roller cams into this build since I upped the cubes from a 400. I'll use what I have and see how I like it. This isn't a track car, just looking for something good and torquey to cruise around with and put my foot into every now and then.
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Ken '68 GTO - 464 - Ram Air II heads - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - Moser 3.55 Truetrac (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
#60
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The fact remains that having those scoops functional on dad's car has proven to be worth a bit of ET and has always run it's fastest time, with numerous engine combos in the car, with the scoops open and sealed to the carb. The part that I found most interesting was the question that Bruce brought up, since now those 2 little scoops are the only thing feeding the 571 that makes 724hp, and it hasn't seemed to kill any performance. So how much CFM actually gets through those openings? I did however mention how those scoops are poorly positioned right in the boundary layer. My 70 Formula works the best out of the bunch from what I've experimented with, and the Z and Chevelle both grabbing at the base of the windshield work exceptionally well. I'm still of the mindset that the OP's setup would look killer with the 68 system intact and functional. He likes period correct making the car appear as if he would have built it in 69-70 using over the counter OEM performance parts, as he mentioned in an earlier post, and to me the 68 RA pan setup is at the top of that list. |
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